[CALL TO ORDER]
[00:00:04]
I NOW DECLARE THAT THE P PLANO CITY COUNCIL IS RECONVENING AN OPEN SESSION THAT ALL MEMBERS ARE PRESENT.
WE'LL BEGIN TONIGHT'S REGULAR MEETING WITH THE INVOCATION LED BY REVEREND DAY YOUNG PASTOR OF THE WEST PLANO PRESBYTERIAN AND THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE IN TEXAS PLEDGE LED BY LAW ENFORCEMENT POST 9 1 1.
WOULD YOU ALL PLEASE STAND? I INVITE YOU TO PRAY FROM YOUR FAITH TRADITION, FROM WHEREVER FAITH TRADITION YOU COME FROM.
AND, UH, SO LET US PRAY TOGETHER.
GOD OF JUSTICE AND MERCY, THANK YOU FOR THE GIFT OF LIFE AND THE OPPORTUNITY TO SERVE THE PEOPLE OF OUR CITY.
HELP US TO ACT WITH CHARACTER AND CONVICTION AND HELP US TO LISTEN WITH UNDERSTANDING AND GOODWILL.
AS WE CONVENE OUR MEETING, MAY WE BE MINDFUL, ESPECIALLY FOR THOSE OF THOSE WHO ARE IN NEED IN OUR COMMUNITY.
AND WE THANK YOU FOR ALL THOSE AROUND THIS TABLE FOR THEIR GIFTS AND TALENTS AS THEY SERVE THIS COMMUNITY.
AMERICA AND ONE NATION UNDER GOD INVISIBLE LIBERTY PLEDGE ONE STATE, ONE INVISIBLE.
THANK YOU GUYS FOR DOING THIS.
[PROCLAMATIONS AND SPECIAL RECOGNITIONS]
UH, A COUPLE OF PROCLAMATIONS.THE MONTH OF APRIL 18TH THROUGH THE 24TH IS NATIONAL CRIME.
VICTOR'S VICTIM'S RIGHTS WEEK.
UH, THE PLANO POLICE DEPARTMENT AND PLANO VICTIM SERVICES PROGRAM HELP VICTIMS OF VIOLENT CRIMES.
SO I'D LIKE TO CALL FORWARD GAY LACO SENIOR POLICE, UH, LEGAL ADVISOR.
AND CHRISTIE HOFF, POWER SENIOR VICTIM ADVOCATE.
SO I'LL, UH, I'D LIKE TO READ THE PROCLAMATION FOR THIS WEEK, WHEREAS THE UNITED STATES CONGRESS ENACTED THE VICTIMS OF CRIME ACT IN 1984 AND SOON AFTER THE TEXAS LEGISLATURE PASSED A CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT GUARANTEEING VICTIMS THE RIGHT TO MEANINGFULLY PARTICIPATE IN CRIMINAL JUSTICE PROCESS.
WHEREAS THE PLANO POLICE DEPARTMENT'S VICTIM SERVICES PROGRAM PROVIDES SERVICES FREE OF CHARGE TO HELP REDUCE THE SHORT AND LONG-TERM EFFECTS DUE TO VIOLENT CRIMES FOR THOSE DISTRESSED AND IS DEDICATED TO STRENGTHENING VICTIMS AND THOSE WHO SURVIVE IN THE AFTERMATH OF CRIME.
THESE SERVICES OFFER A PATH TO A BETTER FUTURE FOR THOSE WHO ARE AFFECTED BY THE UNLAWFUL ACTIVITIES OF OTHERS.
NOW, THEREFORE, I JOHN B MUNNS MAYOR OF THE CITY OF PLANO, TEXAS DUE HEREBY PROCLAIM APRIL 23RD TO THE 29TH.
2023 IS NATIONAL CRIME VICTIM'S RIGHTS WEEK IN PLANO.
I DO THEREBY ENCOURAGE ALL CITIZENS TO JOIN ME AND THE PLANO CITY COUNCIL IN THANKING THE PLANO POLICE DEPARTMENT AND THE PLANO VICTIM SERVICES PROGRAM, AND ALL THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE PROFESSIONALS WHO WORK WITH
[00:05:01]
PASSION AND RESOLVE TO SAFEGUARD VICTIMS OF CRIME IN OUR COMMUNITY.UM, THANK YOU FOR COMING THIS EVENING.
NATIONAL CRIME VICTIMS RIGHTS WEEK IS A WEEK TO JUST HONOR THE PEOPLE WHO'VE HAD THEIR LIVES ALTERED AND FOR, UM, AS BEING A VICTIM OF A CRIME.
AND SO WE WANT TO SHOW THEM SUPPORT THAT THEY CAN COME FORWARD AND BE BELIEVED AND SUPPORTED.
UM, MANY WILL NEED ONGOING RESOURCES.
SO THE PLANO POLICE DEPARTMENT VICTIM SERVICES UNIT EXISTS TO PROVIDE COMPREHENSIVE AND COMPASSIONATE SERVICES TO HELP REDUCE THE SHORT-TERM AND THE LONG-TERM TRAUMA THAT SOMEONE EXPERIENCES AS A RESULT OF THEIR VICTIMIZATION.
LET'S GIVE 'EM A HAND ONE MORE TIME.
OUR NEXT PROCLAMATION IS MAY IS BUILDING SAFETY MONTH.
I'D LIKE TO CALL FORWARD CELSO MATA, WHO IS OUR CHIEF BUILDING OFFICIAL.
OUR CONTINUING EFFORTS TO ADDRESS CRITICAL SAFETY ISSUES IN CONSTRUCTION THAT AFFECT OUR CITIZENS IN EVERYDAY LIFE AND NATIONAL DISASTERS ASSURES US THAT OUR STRUCTURES ARE SAFE AND SOUND WELCOME CELSO BUILDING SAFETY MONTH.
WHEREAS THE CITY OF PLANO IS COMMITTED TO RECOGNIZING THAT OUR GROWTH AND STRENGTH DEPENDS ON THE SAFETY AND ESSENTIAL ROLE OF HOMES, BUILDINGS, AND INFRASTRUCTURE PLAY BOTH IN EVERYDAY LIFE AND WHEN DISASTERS STRIKE.
WHEREAS MODERN BUILDING CODES INCLUDE SAFEGUARDS TO PROTECT THE PUBLIC FROM HAZARDS SUCH AS HURRICANES, SNOWSTORMS, TORNADOES, WILDLAND FIRES, FLOODS, AND EARTHQUAKES.
AND WHEREAS EACH YEAR IN OBSERVANCE OF BUILDING SAFETY MONTH, THE CITY OF PLANO IS ASKED TO CONSIDER THE COMMITMENT TO IMPROVE BUILDING SAFETY, RESILIENCE, AND ECONOMIC INVESTMENT AT HOME AND IN THE COMMUNITY, AND TO ACKNOWLEDGE THE ESSENTIAL SERVICES PROVIDED TO ALL OF US BY LOCAL BUILDING AND FIRE DEPARTMENTS IN PROTECTING LIVES AND PROPERTY.
NOW, THEREFORE, I JOHN B MUNZ MAYOR OF THE CITY OF PLANO DO HEREBY PROCLAIM MAY, 2023 AS BUILDING SAFETY MONTH IN THE CITY OF PLANO, TEXAS.
AND I DO THEREBY ENCOURAGE ALL CITIZENS TO JOIN ME AND THE PLANO CITY COUNCIL IN COMMENDING OUR DEDICATED STAFF AND THEIR VIGILANT EFFORTS TO UPHOLD BUILDING CODES TO ENSURE PLANO REMAINS A CITY OF EXCELLENCE.
WELL, BUILDING SAFETY MONTH IS A NATIONAL CAMPAIGN THAT TAKES PLACE IN MAY.
SO WE'RE A LITTLE BIT AHEAD OF THE GAME TO RAISE AWARENESS ABOUT BUILDING SAFETY.
THE CAMPAIGN REINFORCES THE NEED FOR ADOPTION OF UP TO DATE BUILDING CODES TO HELP US BUILD SAFE, SUSTAINABLE STRUCTURES FOR HOMES AND BUSINESSES.
AND SO WE THANK YOU MAYOR FOR THIS PROCLAMATION AND COUNCIL AND THE SUPPORT FOR BUILDING SAFETY MONTH.
[OATHS OF OFFICE]
MY PLEASURE TO FINALLY GIVE THE OATH OF OFFICE TO A COM, A POTENTIAL FUTURE COMMISSIONER WITHIN THE NEXT 30 SECONDS.SO I'D LIKE TO INVITE BILL LYLE DOWN.
I'M GONNA READ THE OATH OF OFFICE.
DO YOU SOLEMNLY SWEAR OR AFFIRM THAT YOU WILL FAITHFULLY EXECUTE THE DUTIES OF THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION OF THE CITY OF PLANO, STATE OF TEXAS, AND WILL TO THE BEST OF YOUR ABILITY, PRESERVE, PROTECT, AND DEFEND THE CONSTITUTION AND LAWS OF THE UNITED STATES AND OF THE STATE AND THE CHARTER OF THE ORDINANCES OF THIS CITY? AND YOU THERE FURTHERMORE, SOLEMNLY SWEAR THAT YOU HAVE NOT DIRECTLY OR INDIRECTLY PAID, OFFERED OR PROMISED TO PAY, CONTRIBUTED NOR PRO PROMISED TO CONTRIBUTE ANY MONEY OR VALUABLE THING OR PROMISED ANY PUBLIC OFFICE OR EMPLOYMENT AS A REWARD TO SECURE YOUR APPOINTMENT.
[00:10:01]
THAT WAS LONG, BUT IT WAS GOOD.AND FINALLY, FOR THOSE WHO HAVE SERVED US SO WELL, WE WOULD LIKE TO SAY THANK YOU.
SO I'D LIKE TO CALL UP AN ANDRE GI.
I'M GOING TO DO MY BEST ANDRE LA LAP SO FAR AWAY.
AND AMIT, WACO, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR, FOR YOUR SERVICE.
WE APPRECIATE THE WORK YOU'VE DONE FOR US AND, AND, UH, THE GRATITUDE IS, IS A SMALL APPRECIATION, BUT WE THANK YOU SO MUCH.
[COMMENTS OF PUBLIC INTEREST]
INTEREST, COMMENTS OF PUBLIC INTEREST.THIS PORTION OF THE MEETING IS TO ALLOWED TO THREE MINUTES PER SPEAKER WITH 30 TOTAL MINUTES ON ITEMS OF INTEREST OR CONCERN AND NOT ON ITEMS THAT ARE ON THE CURRENT AGENDA.
THE COUNCIL MAY NOT DISCUSS THESE ITEMS, BUT MAY RESPOND WITH FACTUAL OR POLICY INFORMATION.
THE COUNCIL MAY CHOOSE TO PLACE THE ITEM ON A FUTURE AGENDA.
WE DO HAVE A FEW SPEAKERS THIS EVENING.
OVERALL NUISANCE OR DANGEROUS? DOES IT MATTER? NO ONE HAS THE RIGHTS TO PUT CHEMICALS INTO MY BODY OR ONTO MY PROPERTY.
SMOKER'S RIGHTS THAT IS BS THE RIGHT OF THE PERSON TO NOT HAVE TO PUT UP WITH ANOTHER PERSON'S BAD HABITS IS ALL THAT MATTERS.
THE ARGUMENT THAT PEOPLE HAVE BEEN SMOKING OVER A HUNDRED YEARS IS NOT A GOOD ARGUMENT.
THE ARGUMENT THAT THEY ARE SMOKING ON PRIVATE PROPERTY DOESN'T MATTER.
THE SECOND THE SECONDHAND CIGARETTE SMOKE LEAVES THE PRIVATE PROPERTY.
WHEN WE LIVED IN AN EARLY 1930S FARMHOUSE, WE WERE EXPOSED TO A LOT OF CIGARETTE SMOKE.
NO BEDROOM DOORS WERE SHUT BECAUSE WE WERE ONLY TWO WINDOW UNITS.
THE PHARMACIST USED TO SELL MY MOTHER VCE AND CAVE WITHOUT A PRESCRIPTION ALL THE TIME BECAUSE OF THE FOUR OF HIS CHILDREN WERE ALWAYS GETTING BRONCHIAL INFECTIONS OR COLDS.
IT WASN'T AS BAD WHEN WE MOVED TO A DIFFERENT HOUSE WHERE WE COULD SHUT UP BEDROOM DOORS.
AND OUR GAME WAS FAR FROM THE DEN.
AS A CHILD, AT ABOUT AGE SEVEN, EIGHT, I REMEMBER DREAMING OF A DAY WHEN I DID NOT HAVE TO PUT UP WITH CIGARETTE SMOKE.
THIS WAS SHORTLY AFTER I NEARLY DIED FROM SECONDHAND CIGARETTE SMOKE.
I WAS LAID UP IN BED FOR TWO WEEKS WITH BRONCO PNEUMONIA.
I TRIED TO TELL MY FATHER THAT HE HAD CAUSED THE ILLNESS, BUT HE SAID IT WAS IN MY HEAD.
I WANTED TO MARRY A POLITICIAN WHO WOULD MAKE LAWS TO, TO END EXPOSURE TO SECONDHAND SMOKE.
I LATER REALIZED I DIDN'T WANNA MARRY A POLITICIAN, BUT I STILL WANT LAWS TO END THIS.
I KNEW THEN, AND I KNOW NOW THAT THE SMOKER RIGHTS ENDS THE MOMENT THAT THOSE TOXIC CHEMICALS CAUSE HARM.
I AM SCARED TO DEATH THAT ONE OF MY CLOSE NEIGHBORS WILL MOVE AND A SMOKER WILL MOVE IN NEXT DOOR.
I SHOULDN'T HAVE TO LIVE IN FEAR.
IT IS BAD ENOUGH IF I WALK LATER IN THE MORNING AND I'M ASSAULTED WITH CIGARETTE SMOKE FROM A PERSON SMOKING IN HIS BACKYARD.
I NEVER SEE HIM SINCE HE IS IN HIS BACKYARD.
BY NOW I'M ASSAULTED WITH HIS CIGARETTE SMOKE AND HAVE TO COVER MY MOUTH AND NOSE TILL I'M OUT OF HIS RANGE.
HE CAN GO INSIDE AND SMOKE AND LEAVE HIS NE NEIGHBORS IN PEACE.
YOUR JOB IS TO PASS LAWS WHERE YOUR CITIZENS ARE PROTECTED FROM UNNECESSARY CHEMICALS AND THREATS, WHETHER YOU BELIEVE THAT IT IS A DANGER OR A NUISANCE.
THE NON-SMOKER HAS THE RIGHT TO CLEAN AIR.
THE SMOKER IS THE PERPETRATOR OF THE NUISANCE AND IT'S DANGEROUS.
NAME ONE OTHER CARCINOGENIC CHEMICAL YOU CAN GET AWAY WITH PUTTING INTO THE BODY OF ANOTHER PERSON WITHOUT GOING TO JAIL.
BAN SMOKING ON ALL CITY OWNED PROPERTY, PASS A NUISANCE LAW THAT CIGARETTES SMOKE ON PRIVATE
[00:15:01]
PROPERTY CANNOT ENTER ADJACENT PROPERTY.THE NEXT SPEAKER IS STEVEN GRIFF.
I'M A RESIDENT OF PLANO AND, UH, LIVING IN THE, UH, AREA AROUND CUSTER AND, UH, LEGACY.
AND I JUST WANTED TO, I'M, I'M GONNA BE VOTING SOON HERE, AND I WANNA MAKE AN INFORMED VOTE FOR THIS ELECTION AND SUBSEQUENT ELECTIONS AND SOMETHING THAT'S CONCERNED US IN THAT AREA, YOU MIGHT THINK IS OUR DEVELOPMENT THERE AT, UH, YOU KNOW, CALLED UH, WHAT LEGACY SQUARE AT CUSTER AND LEGACY.
UH, WE CALL IT STAG 13, BUT THAT MIGHT BE, UH, ACTUALLY A LITTLE BIT UNFAIR FOR ARMY BARRACKS.
I, I'VE, I'VE, I'VE NEVER SEEN, I'VE, I'VE SEEN MILITARY BARRACKS THAT HAVE MORE STYLE THAN WHAT WAS BUILT THERE, BUT, UH, I WANTED TO JUST, I WANTED TO KIND OF WANTED TO JUST FIND OUT, YOU KNOW, EVERY TIME WE DRIVE BY THERE, AND IT'S NOT US, IT'S EVERY DOZENS AND DOZENS AND DOZENS OF YOUR CONSTITUENTS THAT I'VE TALKED TO IN THAT AREA.
THEY, THEY JUST, WE LOOK WITH DISBELIEF.
HOW COULD SOMETHING SO BANAL, SO, UH, BEREFT OF ANY KIND OF CREATIVITIES WHOSE FOURTH GREAT-GRANDDAUGHTER DESIGNED THIS THING, DECIDED THAT THEY WOULD DROP A WHITEWASHED PLYWOOD BOX IN THE MIDDLE OF THE CITY OF, OF EXCELLENCE.
IT, IT'S, IT'S, UH, IT'S UGLY.
AND SO I, I'M ADDRESSING THE VILIFICATION OF PLANO.
IT'S NOT THE DEVELOPMENT OF PLANO THAT I OBJECT TO.
I, I REALIZE AS A CITY BUILDS OUT, IT HAS TO BUILD UP AND, AND, AND YOU HAVE TO DEAL WITH THAT.
BUT THE DOES IT HAVE TO BE SO UGLY? AND SO I THOUGHT, WELL, MAYBE I'M MISSING SOMETHING.
SO I DECIDED TO TAKE THESE PICTURES AND I, YOU KNOW, I'M JUST TO MAKE IT SIMPLE SO YOU COULD SEE THE STRUCTURE.
HOW MANY OF YOU HAVE SEEN, IS THAT OKAY TO ASK? HOW MANY HAVE SEEN THIS, UH, STRUCTURE IN, IN, UH, AND UH, AND THEN IT'S JUST A PICTURE OF MY NEIGHBORHOOD.
IT'S LIKE, YOU KNOW, LITERALLY THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS OF NEIGHBORHOOD RESIDENCE HALL AREAS IN, IN PLANO.
AND UH, YOU KNOW, I SEE PEOPLE DRIVE THROUGH PLANO.
THEY SAY THIS BEAUTIFUL BRICK STRUCTURES OF ALL KINDS AND THEY LOVE THE, THE, UH, UH, VARIED INSETS AND, UH, WHAT WOULD WE CALL THAT? THE, THE, UH, UH, THE, THE SETBACK FROM THE WATCH.
YOU KNOW, YOU'VE GOT LITTLE RECESSED COVES AND STUFF AND LITTLE TOURISTS STICKING OUT ALL THE THINGS THAT MAKE PLANO PROPERTY LOOK NICE, WHETHER IT BE RESIDENTIAL OR BUSINESS, WHATEVER.
BUT I LOOK AT THIS MONSTROSITY AND WE JUST LOOK AT EACH OTHER AND DISBELIEVE IN HOW IN THE WORLD COULD SOMETHING LIKE THIS BE BEGIN? WELL, I GOT A VOTE HERE AND I JUST THOUGHT, IS IT OKAY IF I, IT MUST HAVE HAD VIGOROUS SUPPORT AMONG THE MEMBERS OF THIS COW.
I DON'T THINK YOU CAN BUILD SOMETHING LIKE THAT WITHOUT THE APPROVAL.
AM I CORRECT? PLEASE? PERHAPS THERE'S SOMEBODY WHO CAN HELP ME.
CAN YOU, THERE WAS NO, AND I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT, I KNOW THERE WAS A ZONING DISPUTE, SO I'M NOT TALKING THE ZONING I UNDERSTAND THAT.
I'M TALKING ABOUT JUST CUZ IT'S ZONE MULTI-FAMILY.
DO WE HAVE TO, UH, PUT STAG 13 IN THERE? I'M SORRY.
I'VE, I CAN'T COUNT HOW MANY CITIZENS SHARE YOUR CONCERNS, UH, WITH THIS AND COUNCIL MEMBERS, UH, WITH THIS PROJECT.
NO, NO, JUST KEEP GOING, PLEASE.
WITH THIS, UH, WITH THIS PROJECT MM-HMM.
THE, UH, THE BUILDERS DEVELOPED IT ACCORDING TO EVERYTHING THAT WAS ALLOWED UNDER PREEXISTING ZONING.
THE ONLY THING THEY HAD TO DO WAS GET A PLAT APPROVED, WHICH WAS AN ADMINISTERIAL FUNCTION, NOT SUBJECT TO, UM, SO THE APPEARANCE OF A STRUCTURE YOU COULD PUT, AS LONG AS IT COMPLIES, I REALIZE IT WAS ZONED, UH, A MULTI-FAMILY.
THAT SORT OF THING DID NOT REQUIRE COUNCIL UNDERSTAND WE CAN'T DISCUSS IT UNDER, UNDER, IT'S NOT A AGENDA.
SO THIS IS, I APPRECIATE YOUR, YOUR RESPONSE, BUT, UH, OKAY.
IT, IT, IT WAS APPROVED LAW BEFORE THIS COUNCIL, THE, THE ACTUAL AESTHETICS OF THE BUILDING.
BUT SIR, THERE'S A STATE LAW THAT RESTRICTS OUR ABILITY TO REGULATE THE AESTHETICS THAT PASSED, I THINK IN, UM, IT WAS IN 2019.
[00:20:01]
YEAH.SO THE STATE HAS PREEMPTED OUR ABILITY IN MANY WAYS, AND WE CAN GET YOU SOME MORE INFORMATION.
IF YOU HAVE HIS EMAIL ON THAT BILL, BILL, I WOULD APPRECIATE THAT.
SHOULD I GIVE YOU A CALL OR, YEAH, WE'LL, WE'LL EMAIL.
WE'LL GET YOUR, WE GET YOUR BACK CONTACT INFORMATION SO YOU CAN, IF AS LONG AS IT COMPLIES WITH THE BASIC ZONING.
AND I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT ZONING HERE.
DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT I'M TALKING ABOUT HOW UGLY MM-HMM.
SO, BUT SIR, THE STATE LAW RESTRICTED CITIES A FEW YEARS AGO FROM, AND IT SAYS YOU CAN PUT SOMETHING AS UGLY AS YOU WANT ANY YES.
BASICALLY PUT MEET MINIMUM CONSTRUCTION STANDARDS.
WELL, I KNOW THERE ARE A COUPLE OF CANDIDATES FOR THE, THE ASSEMBLY THAT WANNA CHANGE THAT TOO, I THINK.
THINK WE'LL, WE'LL, WE'LL SEND YOU THE INFORMATION.
THE NEXT SPEAKER IS PEYTON JACKSON.
THE REASON WHY YOU DON'T KNOW WHO THOSE AMAZING WOMEN ARE IS DUE SOLELY TO WHITE SUPREMACY.
AND WITH THE MAJORITY OF DEATHS BEING PREVENTATIVE, I WOULD SAY WE ARE THE FOUNDATION OF A MASTERED INDUSTRY THAT IS STILL KILLING US TODAY.
OBS AND NURSES REPLACED MIDWIVES LIKE BIG PHARMA REPLACED HOLISTIC HEALING.
AND IF YOU THINK THE OPIOID CRISIS IS BAD, IMAGINE NOT QUALIFYING FOR THE CHILL PILL SIMPLY DUE TO THE COLOR OF YOUR SKIN.
THE PROBLEM IS, Y'ALL DON'T THINK THAT BLACK WOMEN FEEL PAIN BECAUSE WHEN YOU SWING, WE GET BACK UP.
BUT ANGRY BLACK WOMAN, THE SECOND WE SWING BACK, I PROMISE YOU I'M NOT MAD, BUT I HAVE EVERY REASON TO BE, AND I NEED ALL OF MY ANTI-ABORTION PEOPLE TO STAND UP BECAUSE THE EXPERIMENTS, THE MODULES THAT MR. SIMS PRACTICE WEREN'T JUST ON THE BODIES OF MY SISTERS.
YOU SEE, AFTER HE TREATED THE MOTHERS OF HEALTHCARE, THE MOTHERS OF MODERN GYNECOLOGY LIKE GUINEA PIGS, HE TOOK A STICK AND JABBED IT INTO THE HEAD HEADS OF NEWBORN BABIES.
LIKE YOU IGNORE THE MORTALITY RATE, IT HURTS LIKE HELL BEING BLACK IN AMERICA.
SO EVERY TIME I GO TO THE DOCTOR AND THEY TELL ME MY PAIN IS NORMAL, THEY ARE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT.
BUT YOU KNOW WHAT, LIKE THE GREAT GEORGE WALLACE ONCE SAID, REPARATIONS NOW REPARATIONS TOMORROW AND REPARATIONS FOREVER.
THE NEXT SPEAKER, THE NEXT SPEAKER IS BILL FRANCE, MAYOR BONDS AND MEMBERS OF CITY COUNCIL.
I'M A 26 YEAR RESIDENT OF PLANO, AND I AM HERE TONIGHT TO APPLAUD YOUR EFFORTS TO MEET WITH OUR PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION ON MAY 8TH TO ENACT A TEMPORARY BAN ON SHORT-TERM RENTALS THROUGHOUT OUR RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOODS.
THIS BAN IS ESSENTIAL TO ADDRESS THE FUNDAMENTAL PROBLEM, THE DESTRUCTION OF THE SENSE OF SAFETY, SECURITY, AND COMMUNITY THAT IS LOST WHEN LONG-TERM RESIDENTS WHO WE KNOW AND TRUST ARE REPLACED BY A REVOLVING DOOR OF STRANGERS AND TRANSIENTS.
WE BELIEVE THIS IS A PRAGMATIC, NECESSARY AND LAWFUL FIRST STEP TO BRING BACK THE PEACE AND SERENITY OF OUR SUBURBAN COMMUNITIES.
THANK YOU AGAIN FOR YOUR TIME AND CONTINUED COMMITMENT TO THIS URGENT AND IMPORTANT ISSUE.
[00:25:07]
THE LAST SPEAKER IS GREG PATILLO.GOOD EVENING MAYOR IN COUNCIL.
MY NAME IS GREG PATILLO, A 29 YEAR RESIDENT OF PLANO.
IN THE DISCUSSION IN BAIT REGARDING SHORT-TERM RENTALS, I'VE HEARD THE TERM FISCALLY RESPONSIBLE USED ON MORE THAN ONE OCCASION.
SO TONIGHT I WOULD LIKE TO PRESENT DATA BENCHMARKS AND INSIGHT THAT WILL HOPEFULLY CHANGE HOW THAT TERM IS USED IN THE FUTURE DISCUSSIONS SO THAT IT MIGHT MORE ACCURATELY REFLECT REALITY.
A RECENTLY PRESENTED DATA REGARDING THE GAP BETWEEN HOTEL OCCUPANCY TAX CALCULATED BASED ON THE REVENUE REPORTED BY AIR D N A AND THE REMITTANCES REPORTED BY PLANO UNDER THE VOLUNTARY COLLECTION AGREEMENTS WITH AIRBNB AND V R B O.
THAT GAP REPRESENTS AN ESTIMATED $1 MILLION OF UNCOLLECTED OCCUPANCY TAX SINCE THE AGREEMENTS WERE ASSIGNED IN 2019.
VCAS OFFER NO REALISTIC OPPORTUNITY TO IMPROVE COMPLIANCE AND ALLOW HOST TO OPERATE A NON ANONYMITY.
THE FACT THAT PLANO HAD NO DATA ON WHERE SHORT-TERM RENTALS WERE BEING OPERATED AND HAD TO PAY FOR DECKARD SERVICES CAN BE TRACED BACK TO THIS DECISION TO ENTER INTO THESE AGREEMENTS.
ALSO, THE CITY APPEARS TO BE PLANNING TO SHOEHORN THE ADMINISTRATION AND COMPLIANCE OF SHORT-TERM RENTALS INTO EXISTING SYSTEMS AND PROCESSES.
IF THAT IS INDEED THE PLAN, IT WOULD BE THE MOST EXPENSIVE AND UNPRODUCTIVE PATH FORWARD FOR THE CITY USING ONE FULL-TIME EQUIVALENT PER 100 LISTINGS BENCHMARK EXPERIENCED BY GRANICUS HOST COMPLIANCE CONSULTING AND SOFTWARE FIRM THAT SPECIALIZES IN SHORT TERM RENTAL COMPLIANCE AND LAST MONTH'S ACTIVE LISTINGS ON AIRBNB AND VR BRIO V R B O.
THIS APPROACH WILL COST THE CITY APPROXIMATELY $300,000 ANNUALLY FOR THE ADMINISTRATION ENFORCEMENT OF REGISTRATION CODES AND TAXES, AS WELL AS HANDLING CALLS FOR SERVICE.
USING THE PREVIOUSLY PROPOSED $300 REGISTRATION FEE, THE CITY WILL HAVE A MINIMUM NET OPERATING LOSS OF $75,000 ANNUALLY.
MORE RISK, MORE REALISTICALLY, P PLANO WILL EXPERIENCE THE SAME LOW REGISTRATION COMPLIANCE AS OTHER CITIES, AND THE LOSS WILL BE CLOSER TO $150,000, UH, AND CONTINUE TO INCREASE WITH THE NUMBER OF RENTALS.
THERE ARE, UH, WAYS TO LOWER THESE COSTS, CERTAINLY.
ONE OPTION IS TO DO WHAT PLANO HAS DONE WITH HOTEL OCCUPANCY TAX, WHICH REQUIRES FEW RESOURCES, BUT ENCOURAGES NON-COMPLIANCE AND FORFEITS REVENUE, ALLOWING FEWER SHORT-TERM RENTALS AND LEVERAGING TECHNOLOGIES LIKE GRANICUS HOST COMPLIANCE THAT LOWERS THE NUMBER OF FTES REQUIRED PER LISTING AND SHIFT OPERATING EXPENSES TO SOFTWARE LICENSE FEES THAT CAN BE PAID USING OCCUPANCY TAX REVENUE.
FULL DISCLOSURE, I HAVE NO FINANCIAL INTEREST IN THIS SOLUTION, JUST AN INTEREST IN HOW MY TAX DOLLARS ARE SPENT.
I BELIEVE, LIKE MYSELF, MOST PLANO CITIZENS WOULD SUPPORT A ONE-TIME EXPENSE OF OUR TAX DOLLARS TO DEFEND THE CITY'S LEGISLATIVE POWER TO CREATE ZONING ORDINANCES THAT PROTECT THE HEALTH, SAFETY, MORALS, AND GENERAL WELFARE OF OUR COMMUNITY.
I ALSO BELIEVE, LIKE MYSELF, THEY WOULD STRONGLY OBJECT TO USING OUR TAX DOLLARS TO SUBSIDIZE THE BUSINESSES OF A HANDFUL OF INDIVIDUALS AND COMPANIES, MOST OF WHICH ARE NOT PLANO CITIZENS.
SO THEY CAN MAKE ONE TO $2,000 MORE A MONTH FROM AN ACTIVITY THAN LOWERS MY PROPERTY VALUE, MAKES MY NEIGHBORHOOD LESS SAFE, HURTS PLANOS SCHOOLS AND BUSINESSES, AND INCREASES PLANOS COST OF LIVING THAT IS ALREADY 12 TO 13% HIGHER THAN THE NATIONAL AVERAGE.
THEY WOULD ALSO BE FRUSTRATED TO LEARN THAT THE CITY IS FAILING TO COLLECT ALL THE OCCUPANCY TAX THAT IS OWED BECAUSE PLANOS SEATED THEIR AUTHORITY TO TAX AND AUDIT THESE BUSINESSES TO THE PLATFORMS THROUGH THAT OFFER TRANSPARENCY.
HOPEFULLY, IF YOU CHOOSE TO USE THIS TERM FISCALLY RESPONSIBLE IN THE FUTURE, YOU WILL DO SORT MORE PROPERLY.
THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME THIS EVENING.
[CONSENT AGENDA]
AGENDA.THE CONSENT AGENDA WILL BE ACTED UPON IN ONE MOTION AND CONTAINS ITEMS WHICH ARE ROUTINE AND TYPICALLY NON-CONTROVERSIAL.
ITEMS B MAY BE REMOVED FROM THIS AGENDA FOR INDIVIDUAL DISCUSSION BY A COUNCIL MEMBER, THE CITY MANAGER, ANY CITIZEN.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER WILL ESTABLISH TIME LIMITS BASED UPON THE NUMBER OF SPEAKER REQUESTS.
MOTION TO APPROVE THE CONSENT AGENDA EXCEPT FOR ITEMS C AS IN CHARLIE.
I HAVE A MOTION A SECOND TO APPROVE THE CONSENT AGENDA WITH THE EXCEPTION OF ITEM C, PLEASE VOTE COUNCILMAN SMITH.
OOPS, YOU PUSHED ON YOUR SPEAKER.
MOTION PASSES EIGHT TO ZERO ITEM
[(c)
RFB No. 2023-0209-AC for a two (2) year contract with three (3) automatic one-year renewals for Living Screen Maintenance for Parks and Recreation Department to Carruthers Landscape Management, Inc., 308 Construction, LLC dba 308 Solutions Group, and The Davey Tree Expert Company in the estimated annual amount of $127,600; and authorizing the City Manager to execute all necessary documents.
]C, ITEM C R F B NUMBER 2023 DASH TWO NINE DASH AC FOR A TWO YEAR CONTRACT WITH THREE AUTOMATIC ONE YEAR RENEWALS FOR LIVING SCREEN MAINTENANCE FOR PARKS AND RECREATION DEPARTMENT TO CORRUTHERS LANDSCAPE MANAGEMENT, INCORPORATED 3 0 8 CONSTRUCTION, LLC,
[00:30:01]
DOING BUSINESS AS 3 0 8 SOLUTIONS GROUP AND THE DAVY TREE EXPERT COMPANY IN THE ESTIMATED ANNUAL AMOUNT OF $127,600 AND AUTHORIZING THE CITY MANAGER TO EXECUTE ALL NECESSARY DOCUMENTS.RON SMITH, YOUR PARKS AND RECREATION DIRECTOR HERE TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS.
UH, THANK YOU MR. MAYOR AND THANK YOU DR.
UH, I, I, I PULLED THIS OFF OF THE CONSENT AGENDA BECAUSE, UH, I HAD ASKED SOME QUESTIONS, UH, AND, AND OBVIOUSLY, UH, PARKS AND RECREATION PROVIDED, UH, GREAT INFORMATION IN RESPONSE TO THAT ABOUT, UH, HOW WE DECIDED TO UTILIZE AN OUTSIDE CONTRACTOR FOR THIS WORK RATHER THAN DOING IT IN-HOUSE.
UM, AND YOU, YOU KNOW, HOW WE DETERMINED THAT THAT WAS THE MOST COST EFFECTIVE SOLUTION.
AND I RECEIVED BACK, UH, SOME INFORMATION, UH, UH, MIDDAY TODAY, UM, REGARDING, UH, REGARDING THIS.
AND, UH, JUST SO THAT EVERYONE IS ON, ON THE SAME PAGE, UH, THE INFORMATION, WHICH I, I VERY MUCH APPRECIATE, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THIS INFORMATION, UM, WAS THAT, UH, YOU KNOW, WE BEGAN, UH, INTENSIVE TRIMMING OF THE EXISTING LIVING SCREENS LAST YEAR.
UM, THAT, UH, THAT EFFORT WILL CONTINUE, UH, THIS YEAR UTILIZING, UH, THE ADDITIONAL SUPPLEMENT, UH, THAT WE RECEIVED.
AND ONCE THE INTENSIVE TRIMMING HAS BEEN COMPLETED, UM, THAT, UH, THE, THE STAFF RESPONSE SAID WE SHOULD BE ABLE TO MAINTAIN AN ONGOING, UH, 90% TO 10% RATIO OF CONTRACT VERSUS, UH, IN-HOUSE.
AND THANK YOU AGAIN FOR, FOR THIS HELPFUL INFORMATION WAS THAT, UH, SPECIALIZED EQUIPMENT TO IMPROVE THE DEPARTMENT'S, UH, PRODUCTION AND MAINTAINING THE LIVING SCREENS WAS REQUESTED IN THE 2122 OPERATING BUDGET, BUT WAS UNFUNDED.
UM, AND, UH, THEN THERE WERE SOME AMOUNTS ABOUT CONTRACTUAL FUNDING, UH, APPROVED IN, IN THE 2122 BUDGET OF, UH, 84,600, AND THEN 43,000, UM, IN, UH, IN THE 2223 BUDGET.
AND, UH, THAT THE FUTURE, UH, INVENTORY OF LIVING SCREENS IS UNPREDICTABLE BECAUSE WE DON'T KNOW WHEN HOAS WILL SURRENDER THEM TO US, BUT WE ALSO DON'T KNOW WHEN THEY'LL BE, UH, REPLACED BY, UH, YOU KNOW, UH, BRICK OR MASONRY.
YEAH, SOME, SOME TYPE OF, OF, OF, OF PHYSICAL SCREENING WALL.
UH, I GUESS LIVING SCREENS ARE PHYSICAL, BUT YOU KNOW, LIKE A, LIKE BUILT WITH BRICKS OR, OR STONES OR SOMETHING.
AND SO, UM, ANYWAY, AND, AND THEN, UH, I HAD SENT BACK SOME, SOME ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS, BUT THROUGH THE BACK AND FORTH, THAT ENDED UP BEING ABOUT THREE O'CLOCK TODAY.
AND SO, UH, UH, THERE WAS, UH, UM, UM, NOT, UH, NOT, NOT A CHANCE FOR A RESPONSE ON THAT.
SO I JUST WANTED TO, TO ASK THOSE QUESTIONS.
UH, HERE, WHICH, UM, UM, WAS THAT THE FIRST WAS THAT THE RESPONSE MENTIONED, UH, UH, SPECIALIZED EQUIPMENT THAT WAS, UH, REQUESTED IN THE LAST BUDGET CYCLE, BUT WAS UNFUNDED.
AND I JUST WANTED TO ASK IF I'M, UH, CORRECTLY UNDERSTANDING THAT IF THAT EQUIPMENT WERE TO BE FUNDED, UH, AND, AND PERHAPS AN ADDITIONAL, UH, COUPLE OF EMPLOYEES WERE HIRED, UH, WOULD WE BE ABLE TO DO THIS WORK IN-HOUSE? THANK YOU, COUNCIL MEMBER.
THE, UH, THE SPECIALIZED EQUIPMENT WOULD ALLOW US TO TOP THOSE SCREEN WALLS THAT HAVE GONE UNCHECKED FOR SEVERAL YEARS.
THERE WOULD BE SOME AREAS WHERE WE STILL, AS A PARKS AND RECREATION DEPARTMENT WOULD NOT GO TO BECAUSE OF THE POWER LINES AND THE OTHER, UH, OVERHEAD OBSTACLES THAT WE WOULD WANT SPECIFIC CONTRACTORS OR UTILITY CONTRACTORS TO TAKE CARE OF THOSE.
BUT WE WOULD BE ABLE TO HANDLE MORE THAN WHAT WE ARE ABLE TO HANDLE RIGHT NOW WITH THAT PIECE OF SPECIALTY EQUIPMENT.
AND DO WE KNOW HOW MUCH THAT EQUIPMENT WOULD COST? IS IT COST EFFECTIVE TO, TO DO THAT? UH, IT'S AN EXPENSIVE PIECE.
I DON'T REMEMBER EXACTLY WHAT IT WAS.
WE DID SUBMIT IT LAST YEAR, SO I COULD BE ABLE TO PULL THAT QUICKLY AND GET IT TO YOU TOMORROW, BUT, UH, IT WAS A, IT WAS A BIG, YOU KNOW, SIX FIGURE TYPE PIECE OF EQUIPMENT.
AND THEN, UM, I KNOW THAT THE RATIO, UH, AS THE PACKET POINTED OUT, FOR EXAMPLE, FOR MOWING IS 70% IN-HOUSE, 30%, UH, CONTRACTOR.
UM, IT LOOKS LIKE, UH, THE RATIO THAT'S ANTICIPATED HERE IS ONLY 10% IN-HOUSE, 90% CONTRACTOR, WHICH STRUCK ME AS BEING, YOU KNOW, A HEAVY CONTRACTOR UTILIZATION.
AND OBVIOUSLY, YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU UTILIZE A CONTRACTOR, THERE'S A, A PROFIT MARGIN, UH, YOU KNOW, ON THEIR END.
AND, AND, AND, UH, JUST WONDERING IF THAT MAY BE THE MOST COST EFFECTIVE SOLUTION.
SO, UM, SO I WANTED TO, UM, TO SEE WHAT THE REASON FOR THAT, THAT ANTICIPATED RATIO WAS.
WE STILL THINK THAT THAT IS THE BEST SOLUTION FOR OUR LIVING SCREENS.
WE HAVE APPROXIMATELY FOUR MILES OF LIVING SCREENS THROUGHOUT THE CITY, 26 I THINK, OR 24 LOCATIONS WHERE WE HAVE THOSE LIVING SCREENS WHEN YOU COMPARE THAT TO OUR PARK SYSTEM, WHERE WE HAVE A LOT MORE TURF THAT WE MAINTAIN.
AND SO THE RATIO FOR THOSE FEWER LIVING SCREEN LOCATIONS HIGHER ON THE CONTRACT SIDE, 90%, 10% IS, UH, THE GENERAL UPKEEP ONCE A CONTRACTOR HAS GONE IN AND DONE AN AGGRESSIVE PRUNING OF THOSE LIVING SCREENS.
WHEREAS THE MOWING IS SOMETHING THAT WE ARE TAKING CARE OF ON A DAILY BASIS SURE.
FOR ABOUT NINE MONTHS OUT OF THE YEAR.
SO THERE'S A DIFFERENT RATIO, AND WE THINK WHAT WE'VE GOT RIGHT NOW IS A GOOD MIX FOR THE
[00:35:01]
LIVING SCREENS.AND, AND THEN JUST A, A FOLLOW UP ON THAT, I UNDERSTAND ALSO WE'RE IN A PERIOD OF INTENSIVE MAINTENANCE, UH, INTENSIVE TRIMMING RIGHT NOW, AND THAT WILL BE FOLLOWED UP WITH KIND OF LESS INTENSE ONGOING MAINTENANCE.
IS THAT, IS THAT CORRECT? YEAH, OUR LONG-TERM GOAL WOULD IS WE'RE EVALUATING EVERY LOCATION THAT WE HAVE THESE LIVING SCREENS.
UH, WHAT IS HAPPENING IS, UH, WE HAVE SOME LIVING SCREENS THAT FALL TO US WHEN, UH, A MAINTENANCE AGREEMENT WITH AN HOA, UH, FALLS OFF THE TABLE.
SO THEN WE'VE GOTTA GO IN AND PROVIDE SOME REALLY INTENSIVE WORK ON A LIVING SCREEN THAT HAS GONE UNCHECKED FOR MANY YEARS.
WE PREFER TO HAVE A CONTRACTOR DO THAT, UH, WHEN IT'S THAT INTENSIVE.
BUT ONCE THE SCREEN IS, IS TRIMMED DOWN TO A MORE MANAGEABLE SIZE, WE CAN PERIODICALLY ONCE A YEAR, UH, ONCE EVERY TWO OR THREE YEARS EVEN GO IN AND MAKE THOSE, UH, SMALLER TRIMMINGS TO KEEP IT IN CHECK AND KEEP IT IN A SUSTAINABLE FORM AND FASHION.
BUT WE ARE CONTINUALLY LOOKING AT WHAT IS THE BEST WAY FOR US TO, UM, PROVIDE THAT SCREEN, WHETHER IT IS A LIVING SCREEN, UH, WE'VE HAD SOME REALLY GOOD SUCCESS IN THE PAST FOUR OR FIVE YEARS REPLACING OLD LIVING SCREENS WITH NEWER LIVING SCREENS, WITH IRRIGATION, UH, PROPER, UH, LANDSCAPING SO THAT IT DOESN'T GROW OUT OF CONTROL.
WE CAN MAINTAIN IT MORE FREQUENTLY OR WITH A SCREENING WALL.
SO THERE'S A LOT OF OPTIONS THAT ARE ALWAYS IN PLAY, AND WE'RE CONTINUALLY EVALUATING THOSE.
WELL, AND THANK YOU FOR ALL OF THAT INFORMATION.
SO THAT ALL KIND OF COMES TO THE, THE QUESTION I GUESS I STILL DON'T UNDERSTAND, YOU KNOW, IF WE HAVE, IF WE'RE GOING TO REACH KIND OF A STABILIZED LEVEL, UM, OF, YOU KNOW, THE TYPE OF, OF LESS INTENSE, UH, ONGOING MAINTENANCE THAT, THAT IT SOUNDS LIKE IT WOULD BE APPROPRIATE TO DO IN-HOUSE, UM, HOW THEN WILL WE END UP AT THAT RATIO OF ONLY 10% IN-HOUSE, UH, 90% CONTRACTOR? WELL, THAT'S WHAT WE'RE AT RIGHT NOW.
AND THAT'S WHAT WE THINK IS GOOD FOR LIVING SCREENS.
90% OF THE WORK ON THE LIVING SCREEN WITH A CONTRACT, 10% IN HOUSE.
AND IF WHEN WE DO GET TO THE POINT WHERE THE MAJORITY OF OUR SCREENS ARE UNDER CONTROL, THEN THE CONTRACT NUMBER WOULD GRADUALLY GO DOWN AS WE'RE ABLE TO MAINTAIN IT WITH WHAT WE'VE GOT IN HOUSE.
YOU KNOW, AND I GUESS IF THAT, IF THAT EQUIPMENT IS, IS, IT SOUNDS LIKE THE EQUIPMENT WOULD BE SIX FIGURE EQUIPMENT TO DO THIS, AND DO WE HAVE AN ESTIMATE OF HOW MANY YEARS THIS INTENSIVE TRIMMING PERIOD IS, IS GONNA BE GOING ON? WELL, I THINK WE'RE GETTING CLOSE.
I MEAN, A LOT OF THE AREAS THAT HAVE BEEN A REAL PROBLEM WITH THIS CONTRACT THAT'S IN PLACE, AND WE'VE DONE IT FOR THE LAST TWO YEARS HAS BEEN VERY EFFECTIVE.
SO WE LIKE THE DIRECTION THAT WE'RE GOING.
I WOULD SAY, UH, WE WOULD BE ABLE TO PROVIDE, UH, AN UPDATE MAYBE IN THE NEXT THREE OR FOUR YEARS TO SEE WHERE WE ARE CITYWIDE WITH THOSE SCREENS THAT HAVE BEEN, UH, GONE UNCHECKED BY CERTAIN, UH, LANDSCAPE AGREEMENTS AND THINGS LIKE THAT.
THERE'S, UH, ACROSS FROM THE, THE NEW, UH, COLLIN CREEK MALL DEVELOPMENT ON ALMA ROAD, THOSE, UH, LIVING STREAMS WERE, WERE REALLY OUT OF CONTROL.
AND SO WE'VE DONE SOME INTENSIVE WORK THERE OVER THE LAST TWO YEARS, AND IT'S SOMETHING THAT YOU CAN'T DO EVERY YEAR, OTHERWISE YOU REALLY RUN THE RISK OF KILLING THE LIVING MATERIAL.
SO YOU HAVE TO GO INCREMENTALLY.
WELL, I, I THINK THAT MAKES SENSE GIVEN, YOU KNOW, GIVEN THE, UH, YOU KNOW, THE, THE ONE TIME COST OF THE, UH, OF THE EQUIPMENT BEING SIX FIGURES AND THE FACT THAT YOU KNOW, THAT, THAT WE MAY, UM, ONLY BE IN THIS INTENSIVE PERIOD FOR ANOTHER THREE OR FOUR YEARS, IT SOUNDS LIKE THAT MAY NOT, YOU KNOW, IT MAY BE MORE COST EFFECTIVE TO UTILIZE A CONTRACTOR THAT ALREADY HAS THIS EQUIPMENT, BUT I'D LOVE TO SEE, YOU KNOW, KNOW OVER THE NEXT COUPLE OF YEARS IF, YOU KNOW, IF IT'S POSSIBLE AS, AS WE START TO HAVE, YOU KNOW, KNOCK MORE OF THIS INTENSIVE MAINTENANCE OUT AND HAVE MORE, UM, OF THE ONGOING MAINTENANCE TO, TO BRING MORE IN-HOUSE SO THAT HOPEFULLY WE CAN, YOU KNOW, CONTINUE TO BE COST EFFECTIVE.
AND I ALWAYS APPRECIATE THE GREAT INFORMATION THAT YOU AND YOUR TEAM PROVIDE, UH, YOU KNOW, WHETHER IT'S MOWING OR LIVING SCREEN MAINTENANCE OR ANYTHING ELSE, YOU KNOW, ABOUT HOW, UM, HOW WE CAN BE COST EFFECTIVE BY IT, BY BRINGING THINGS IN-HOUSE.
AND WITH THAT INFORMATION, I'LL, I'LL MOVE TO APPROVE.
I HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND TO APPROVE ITEM C.
MOTION PASSES EIGHT TO EIGHT TO ZERO.
[(1) Consideration of an Appeal of the Heritage Commission’s Denial of a Certificate of Appropriateness to make storefront alterations at the front (west) facade at 1422 K Avenue. Applicant: Tom McGill]
INDIVIDUAL CONSIDERATION.PUBLIC HEARING ITEMS, APPLICANTS ARE LIMITED TO 15 MINUTES PRESENTATION TIME WITH A FIVE MINUTE REBUTTAL IF NEEDED.
REMAINING SPEAKERS ARE LIMITED TO 30 TOTAL MINUTES OF TESTIMONY TIME WITH THREE MINUTES ASSIGNED FOR SPEAKER.
OFFICER MAYS AMENDED THESE TIMES AS DEEMED NECESSARY NON-PUBLIC HEARING ITEMS. PRESIDING OFFICER WILL PERMIT PUBLIC COMMENT FOR ITEMS ON THE AGENDA NOT POSTED FOR A PUBLIC HEARING.
PRESIDING OFFICER WILL ESTABLISH TIME LIMITS BASED UPON THE NUMBER OF SPEAKER REQUESTS, LENGTH OF THE AGENDA, AND TO ENSURE MEETING EFFICIENCY AND MAY INCLUDE A CUMULATIVE TIME LIMIT.
SPEAKERS WILL BE CALLED IN THE ORDER OF THE REQUESTS WERE
[00:40:01]
RECEIVED UNTIL THE CUMULATIVE TIME IS EXHAUSTED.ITEM NUMBER ONE, CONSIDERATION OF AN APPEAL OF THE HERITAGE HERITAGE COMMISSION'S DENIAL OF A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS TO MAKE STOREFRONT ALTERATIONS AT THE FRONT WEST FACADE AT 1422 K AVENUE.
GOOD EVENING, MAYOR AND COUNSEL.
I'M MIKE BELL, CONFERENCE PLANNING MANAGER IN THE PLANNING DEPARTMENT.
WE HAVE KIND OF A UNIQUE ITEM FOR YOU TONIGHT.
IT DOESN'T COME UP VERY OFTEN.
IT'S AN APPEAL OF A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS THAT WAS DENIED BY THE HERITAGE COMMISSION.
IT'S UNIQUE IN THAT THE HERITAGE COMMISSION DOES NOT OFTEN DENY CAS.
UM, IN FACT, WE DON'T OFTEN HAVE APPEALS EITHER.
THE LAST APPEAL THAT CAME TO COUNCIL WAS FIVE OR SIX YEARS AGO, AND THIS IS THE FIRST APPEAL, UM, UNDER THE NEW STANDARDS FOR THE DOWNTOWN HERITAGE DISTRICT SINCE IT WAS ADOPTED IN 2016.
AND WE THINK THAT'S A TESTAMENT TO HOW EFFECTIVE THE STANDARDS ARE AND REALLY OUR, OUR COMMITMENT TO GETTING PEOPLE TO, TO A YES IN AN APPROVABLE APPROVABLE CONDITION.
GETTING INTO THE SPECIFICS OF TONIGHT, I'LL GIVE YOU KINDA THE OVERVIEW AND THEN WE'LL, WE'LL START TO UNPACK IT.
THE PROPERTY IS LOCATED AT 1422 K AVENUE AND LOCATED WITHIN THE DOWNTOWN HERITAGE DISTRICT.
IT'S CURRENTLY OCCUPIED BY MCNEIL'S TAVERN IN EATERY, WHO IS THE BUSINESS TENANT AND ALSO THE APPLICANT FOR THE CA.
UH, THE CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS IS REQUESTED FOR DOORS.
UM, BUT I'LL NOTE THAT THE REPLACEMENT HAS ALREADY HAPPENED.
THE DOORS HAVE BEEN REMOVED, AND NEW DOORS HAVE BEEN INSTALLED.
AND SO THIS IS SEEKING RETROACTIVE APPROVAL TO BRING THEM INTO COMPLIANCE.
AND THE CA WAS DENIED BY THE HERITAGE COMMISSION ON MARCH 28TH.
UH, IT IS LOCATED IN THE DOWNTOWN HERITAGE DISTRICT AND ALSO WITHIN THE DOWNTOWN'S LISTING ON THE NATIONAL REGISTER OF HISTORIC PLACES.
IT'S PROPERTY NUMBER 35 THAT ARE ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF THE MAP.
UH, IMPORTANT TO NOTE IS, UH, AS YOU'RE AWARE, UM, PLAINTIFF DOES NOT HAVE A, UH, A LARGE NUMBER OF HISTORIC RESOURCES OUT OF A CITY OF 290,000 AND OVER 200,000 JOBS.
WE HAVE JUST ONE, UM, HISTORIC BUSINESS DISTRICT, AND THAT BEING THE DOWNTOWN AREA, A LITTLE HISTORY OF THIS PROPERTY SPECIFICALLY.
IT WAS BUILT IN THE EARLY 19 HUNDREDS.
IT'S A VERNACULAR COMMERCIAL STYLE, WHICH IS FOR THE DOWNTOWN AREA, HISTORICALLY RETAIL AND COMMERCIAL USES.
AND AGAIN, IT'S UNIQUE IN THAT IT HAS FIVE ADDRESSES ON ONE LOT.
SO THE FOUR DOORS YOU SEE IN THE PHOTO ARE 1422 THROUGH 1428 K AVENUE.
THERE'S A SEPARATE BUILDING THAT FACES 15TH STREET.
THE PROPERTY WE'RE LOOKING AT HERE IS THE ONE OUTLINED IN RED, THE ONE STORY BUILDING ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF THE PHOTO.
UM, THIS PROPERTY DID RECEIVE A CA IN 2019, AND IT WAS A SUBSTANTIAL CA IT INCLUDED PARTIAL DEMOLITION OF THE, THE PROPERTY ON THAT FACE.
ITS 15TH STREET, YOU CAN SEE THERE ON THE LEFT SIDE OF THE PHOTO.
UM, AND THEN THEY WERE CONSTRUCTING A NEW FOUR STORY EDITION AT THE REAR OF THE PROPERTY.
UH, THAT DID NOT INCLUDE ANY CHANGES TO THE HISTORIC STOREFRONTS.
THE PROPERTY OWNER HAS ABANDONED THOSE PLANS AND THE CA HAS SINCE EXPIRED.
UH, IN 2022, THE SUITE GOT A NEW TENANT.
UM, THE SUITE WAS RENOVATED FOR MCNEIL'S TAVERN.
THEY DID RECEIVE A BUILDING PERMIT FOR THOSE INTERIOR RENOVATIONS, BUT IMPORTANT TO NOTE, IT DID NOT INCLUDE THE SCOPE OF THAT PERMIT.
DID NOT INCLUDE ANY EXTERIOR CHANGES.
UH, ONCE THE WORK WAS COMPLETE, STAFF DID, UH, IDENTIFY THAT THE WORK WAS DONE WITHOUT THE NECESSARY APPROVALS.
WE MET WITH THE APPLICANT IN AUGUST AND INFORMED THEM, UM, THAT THIS WAS, THIS WAS OUT OF COMPLIANCE AND THAT IT MAY AFFECT THEIR TAX EXEMPTION.
SO WE REALLY WANTED TO BE PROACTIVE WITH THEM AND, AND GET THEM, UM, IN THE COMPLIANCE AS SOON AS WE COULD.
UM, WE DIDN'T HEAR MUCH AFTER THAT.
SO WE MET AGAIN WITH THE APPLICANT AND THE OWNER IN NOVEMBER TO DISCUSS OPTIONS TO BRING IT INTO COMPLIANCE AGAIN WITH THE TAX EXEMPTION DEADLINE LOOMING.
UM, ULTIMATELY THEY CHOSE NOT TO APPLY FOR THE TAX EXEMPTION, UM, BUT DID END UP SUBMITTING THE CA APPLICATION IN FEBRUARY OF THIS YEAR.
THE SCOPE OF THE PROJECT INCLUDES REMOVAL OF THE BI FOLDING ACCORDION STYLE DOORS THAT YOU SEE IN THE PHOTO ON THE LEFT.
THEY WERE WOOD FRAMED WITH GLASS, AND THEY HAVE ALREADY INSTALLED THE NEW ROLL UP STYLE DOOR, WHICH HAS ALUMINUM FRAMING.
UH, AGAIN, GLASS PANS THAT ARE MORE OF HORIZONTAL PRO HORIZONTAL PROPORTIONS.
THE DOOR DOES FUNCTION, UH, TO OPEN, TO CREATE AN OPEN AIR DINING EXPERIENCE AND, UH, A UNIQUE AMBIANCE.
SO YOU CAN SEE THAT'S HOW THE, THE DOOR OPERATES.
AND THEN UNIQUE IS, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT 1422, BUT THE, THE ACTUAL RESTAURANT OCCUPIES TWO SPACES, UM, THAT FUNCTION AS ONE.
IT'S 1422 AND 1424, BUT ONLY THE DOOR ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF THE PHOTO IS THE ONE IN QUESTION.
AND AS I MENTIONED, THE COUNCIL DOESN'T SEE THIS, UM, THESE TYPES OF REQUESTS VERY OFTEN.
SO I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO WALK THROUGH, UM, WHAT THE HERITAGE COMMISSION CONSIDERS WHEN THEY'RE REVIEWING CERTIFICATES OF APPROPRIATENESS.
[00:45:01]
A COMMON CON MISCONCEPTION THAT IT'S, THE COMMISSION IS PRETTY POLICED, THAT IT'S ABOUT WHAT LOOKS GOOD OR WHAT DOESN'T.BUT I, I WANNA DEMONSTRATE TO YOU THAT THERE IS A METHODOLOGY ABOUT WHAT IS APPROPRIATE OR WHAT IS NOT, AND HOW THE COMMISSION APPLIED THAT.
UM, THE FIRST IS TO DETER, DETERMINE THE BUILDING'S SIGNIFICANCE.
IS IT, IS IT HISTORIC OR NOT? UH, TO DO THAT, YOU START WITH THE DATE THAT THE BUILDING WAS CONSTRUCTED.
UH, WE HAVE TWO PERIODS THAT WE LOOK AT THE PERIOD OF FOCUS AND THE PERIOD OF SIGNIFICANCE.
UM, AND THEN IF IT'S BUILT OUTSIDE OF THOSE, UH, IT, IT'S NOT HISTORIC.
SO THOSE TWO PERIODS ARE WHAT WE WOULD, IF YOU'RE BUILT IN THAT, IN THAT PERIOD, YOU COULD BE CONSIDERED CONTRIBUTING TO THE DISTRICT.
THAT'S A TERM I'M GONNA BE USING.
AND THEN THE DESIGN STANDARDS ARE MEANT TO GIVE MORE OR LESS FLEXIBILITY DEPENDING ON WHEN YOU WERE BUILT AND HOW SIGNIFICANT YOU ARE TO THE DISTRICT.
THE PROPERTY WE'RE LOOKING AT IS WITHIN THE PERIOD OF FOCUS.
SO IT IS ONE OF THOSE THAT'S, UM, KEY TO THE KEY TO THE, UM, THE STATUS OF THE DISTRICT.
BECAUSE OF THAT, IT'S CONTIV, IT'S CONSIDERED CONTRIBUTING TO THE DOWNTOWN HERITAGE DISTRICT AND ALSO CONTRIBUTING TO THE NATIONAL REGISTER LISTING.
UM, BUT IMPORTANT TO NOTE IS THAT WE HAVE THESE SURVEYS DONE EVERY FEW YEARS, UH, BY THIRD PARTY CONSULTANTS, AND THEY NOTED THAT ALTHOUGH THE STOREFRONT ALTERATIONS ON 1422 DEPART FROM HISTORIC PRECEDENTS, THEY ARE KEY CONTRIBUTORS TO THE DISTRICT.
AND W WHAT I WANNA CAUTION ON THAT IS I, IS WE THINK THAT THE PROPERTY IS BORDERLINE CONTRIBUTING BASED ON THE ALTERATIONS THAT HAVE, THAT WERE PREEXISTING TO TODAY.
UM, SO WHAT DOES THIS MEAN? IT'S A CONTRIBUTING BUILDING.
IT'S IMPORTANT THAT WE MAINTAIN THE CARE, THE KEY CHARACTER DEFYING ELEMENTS THAT VARIES FROM PROPERTY TO PROPERTY, BUT GENERALLY, THE KIND OF FEATURES YOU SEE ARE, ARE LISTED HERE.
IT'S IMPORTANT THAT WE PRESERVE THOSE ORIGINAL MATERIALS WHERE THEY EXIST.
AND SPECIFIC TO THIS BUILDING, WE NEED TO USE CAUTION THAT THE FUTURE ALTERATIONS DON'T JEOPARDIZE THAT CONTRIBUTING STATUS.
AGAIN, WE THINK IT'S BORDERLINE.
THE NEXT STEP IS TO LOOK AT BUILDING INTEGRITY.
AND AGAIN, ONCE THOSE KEY, IN SHORT, IT IS LOOKING AT THOSE KEY CHARACTER DEFINING FEATURES AND SAYING, WHAT CONDITION ARE THEY IN? IF THEY'RE MOSTLY ORIGINAL AND THEY'RE IN GOOD CONDITION, IT'S CONSIDERED TO HAVE HIGH INTEGRITY.
IF THEY'RE SUBSTANTIALLY ALTERED OR IN BAD CONDITION, IT'S LOW INTEGRITY.
AND, AND BASED ON WHERE YOU FALL IN THAT RANGE, YOU'RE IN ONE OF FOUR CATEGORIES RANGING FROM INTACT, MOSTLY ORIGINAL TO SUBSTANTIALLY ALTERED.
UM, AND THROUGH THE RENOVATION PROCESS, YOU CAN MOVE FROM ONE CATEGORY TO ANOTHER.
LOOKING AT THE PROPERTY AT 1422, YOU CAN SEE ON THE TOP LEFT IS THE OLDEST PHOTO WE HAVE ON FILE.
IT IS FROM THE PERIOD OF SIGNIFICANCE, APPEARS TO BE IN PROBABLY THE 1950S.
UH, AND, AND WHAT THE ORIGINAL STOREFRONT LOOKED LIKE.
UH, AND THE BOTTOM LEFT IS A PHOTO FROM 1980S.
YOU CAN SEE THAT THE STOREFRONT HAD BEEN ALTERED, IT'S PROBABLY TO MODERNIZE IN THE MID-CENTURY.
UH, AND THAT STAYED THAT WAY UNTIL THE MID TWO THOUSANDS.
THERE'S A 2003 PHOTO THERE, UM, IN THE BOTTOM.
AND, UH, AGAIN, THE STOREFRONTS MOSTLY THE SAME WITH THE, THE CHANGE IN CANOPY.
AND THEN IN THE MID TWO THOUSANDS, A PREVIOUS TENANT, UH, KELLY'S EAST SIDE OCCUPIED THE SPACE AND BUILT THE CANOPY, THE OUTDOOR SEATING, AND CONSTRUCTED THE DOORS, THE WOOD DOORS THAT YOU CAN SEE IN THE PHOTO ON THE RIGHT, IT'S THE INTEGRITY FOR 1422 IS IT DOES MAINTAIN SOME ORIGINAL MATERIALS.
BRICK INSTRUCTION, PARAPET WALLS, PROPORTIONS OF THE OPENING HAVEN'T CHANGED, BUT IT DOES HAVE THOSE NON HISTORIC ALTERATIONS THAT WERE MENTIONED IN THE SURVEY, THE DOORS, WINDOWS, AND THE CANOPY.
UH, WHAT THIS MEANS FOR THE PROPERTY IN TERMS OF ANALYSIS IS IT IS THE MODERATELY ALTERED CATEGORY.
UH, AND THIS IS AN IMPORTANT POINT.
IT'S BECAUSE THOSE PREVIOUS DOORS ARE NOT ORIGINAL.
THEIR PRESERVATION IS NOT CRITICAL TO THE INTEGRITY OF THE BUILDING.
WE'RE NOT CONCERNED THAT THE EXISTING BU THAT THE EXISTING DOORS WERE REMOVED, THAT THAT'S NOT A CONCERN IN THIS CASE.
BUT IDEALLY, THE REPLACEMENT DOORS WOULD IMPROVE THE INTEGRITY THAT THE BOTTOM LINE KIND OF, UH, BE A SIDEWAYS MOVEMENT, NOT REDUCE THE INTEGRITY OF THE BUILDING.
SO THOSE ARE THE THINGS WE'RE LOOKING FOR.
UM, STEP THREE IS TO LOOK AT THE USE.
WHAT'S THE DESIRED USE OF THE PROJECT? THE BEST ONE IS ALWAYS WHAT IT WAS ORIGINALLY DESIGNED FOR, BUT THE STANDARDS ARE INTENDED TO BE ADAPTIVE AND FLEXIBLE TO ALLOW PROPERTIES TO STAY IN USE.
THE BEST WAY TO PRESERVE A BUILDING IS TO USE IT AND NOT LET IT GO VACANT.
UH, FOR THIS PROPERTY, WE BAR RESTAURANT IS APPROPRIATE BASED ON ITS HISTORY AND ITS LOCATION, UM, DUE TO THE LACK OF ORIGINAL MATERIALS, WE ALSO THINK THAT USE OF THE DOOR TO CREATE THAT OPEN AIR DINING EXPERIENCE IS APPROPRIATE.
AGAIN, WE DON'T HAVE THE ORIGINAL STOREFRONT, AND THAT IS A FUNCTIONAL ADAPTATION THAT MAKES THE BUILDING FLEXIBLE.
UH, HOWEVER, WE ALSO BELIEVE THAT PROPORTIONS OF THE STOREFRONT OPENING ARE HISTORIC, SO WE DON'T WANT TO SEE THE OPENING WIDENED OR CHANGED AT ALL.
AND THEN THE LAST STEP IS CHOOSING THE APPROPRIATE TREATMENT STRATEGY.
SO, YOU KNOW, THE, YOU KNOW, TAKING THE FIRST THREE STEPS, YOU CAN CHOOSE WHAT'S THE APPROPRIATE STRATEGY HERE.
IT VARIES FROM BUILDING TO BUILDING BASED ON THE INDIVIDUAL CONSIDERATIONS, BUT BASICALLY THERE ARE FIVE STEPS, AND THEY'RE IN A PREFERRED ORDER AS LISTED HERE.
THE FIRST IS TO PRESERVE, IF YOU HAVE AN ORIGINAL MATERIAL, KEEP IT AS IS.
[00:50:01]
AN ORIGINAL IN THIS CASE, SO THAT DOESN'T APPLY.THE SECOND IS TO REPAIR, IF IT'S, IF IT'S ORIGINAL, BUT IT'S DETERIORATED, THE INTENT IS TO REPAIR IT BACK TO ITS ORIGINAL CONDITION.
AGAIN, THAT DOESN'T APPLY IN THIS CASE.
SO MOVING ON, THE THIRD PREFERENCE WOULD BE TO RECONSTRUCT IT.
SO IF IT'S MISSING ENTIRELY AS IT IS IN THIS CASE, YOU WOULD RECONSTRUCT IT FROM THE APPROPRIATE EVIDENCE.
AND THAT'S THE PHOTOGRAPHS THAT WE SHOWED BEFORE.
THAT WOULD BE THE PREFERRED OPTION IN THIS CASE.
BUT THERE ARE OTHER ALTERNATIVES YOU COULD REPLACE IF THERE'S NO EVIDENCE, WHICH IS NOT THE CASE HERE, BUT YOU COULD REPLACE WITH A SIMPLIFIED INTERPRETATION OF THE ORIGINAL, WHICH HAS BEEN DONE IN OTHER LOCATIONS DOWNTOWN, OR YOU COULD DO A COMPATIBLE ALTERATION.
UM, IF AS LONG AS IT DOESN'T, UM, MINI, AS LONG AS IT MINIMIZES THE IMPACT TO ORIGINAL FEATURES AND DISTINGUISHES NEW FROM ORIGINAL IS ANOTHER POSSIBLE ALTERNATIVE.
IN THIS CASE, WE WOULD IDEALLY LIKE TO SEE THE SITE RECONSTRUCTED BASED ON THE PHOTOGRAPHIC EVIDENCE, BUT WE ACKNOWLEDGE THAT'S REALLY NOT THE SCOPE OF THE PERMIT HERE.
THEY'RE NOT DOING A FULL ON REHABILITATION.
UM, SO WE THINK THAT AN OPEN AIR ADAPTATION IS AN ACCEPTABLE ALTERNATIVE, SO LONG AS IT MEETS THE STANDARDS OF THE DISTRICT.
AND, AND WE, WE AGREE WITH THE INTENT OF CREATING THAT DINING EXPERIENCE.
SO LOOKING AT SPECIFIC STANDARDS OF THE DOWNTOWN AREA, SOME GUIDANCES THAT IS TO AVOID CONFUSING MIXES OF STYLES OR PERIODS THAT AFFECT THE SIGNIFICANCE OF THE PROPERTY STAFF'S ANALYSIS.
THE ROLLUP DOOR DOES CREATE A MIX OF STYLES FROM THE CONTEMPORARY STYLES, MATERIALS, AND PROPORTIONS THAT ARE NOT, UM, OFTEN SEEN IN THE DOWNTOWN DISTRICT.
UH, I WANNA NOTE THOUGH THAT THE ROLLUP DOOR IN ITSELF IS, IS NOT NECESSARILY A PROBLEM.
IT WOULD BE, IT WOULD BE MORE APPROPRIATE ON A BUILDING THAT HAD A AUTOMOTIVE USE, FOR EXAMPLE, WHERE THEY HAD ROLLUP DOORS.
THIS WOULD BE A, A VERY APPROPRIATE APPLICATION IN THAT SITUATION.
UH, WHAT WE WOULD RECOMMEND IS A SLIDING OR A HINGE DOOR THAT WHEN FULLY CLOSED REPLICATES THE HISTORIC STOREFRONT.
IT ALSO GOES ON TO SAY THAT MANY STOREFRONTS IN DOWNTOWN HAVE, UH, COMPONENTS SEEN ON COMMERCIAL BUILDINGS.
THIS REPETITION, UH, IS CREATES THIS UNITY ALONG THE STREET THAT'S WORTH PRESERVING IN OUR ANALYSIS.
THE PROPOSED HORIZONTAL PROPORTIONS AND MULTI GLASS PANELS, ALUMINUM FRAMES ARE MORE CONTEMPORARY THAN THE OTHER BUILDINGS ON THE BLOCK.
AND THIS BREAKS THAT REPETITION ALONG KAY AVENUE AND I, AND I'LL SHOW YOU THAT PHOTO IN A SECOND.
UM, BUT I, WE ALSO WANNA ACKNOWLEDGE THAT THAT REPETITION ISN'T TOTALLY OBVIOUS, JUST STANDING ON THE STREET BECAUSE THERE IS A CANOPY, A DINING AREA, A TREE IN FRONT, IT IS HARD TO SEE THAT REPETITION JUST STANDING OR JUST PASSING BY ON THE, IN YOUR CAR.
BUT YOU CAN'T SEE, THESE ARE THE TWO PROPERTIES TO THE LEFT AND THE TWO PROPERTIES TO THE RIGHT.
GENERALLY, THEY MAINTAIN THE SAME CHARACTERS FOUND THROUGH MOST OF DOWNTOWN AND HAVE A CENTRAL DOOR, UH, A STOREFRONT WINDOW ON EITHER SIDE, GENERALLY VERTICAL PROPORTIONS IN THOSE OPENINGS.
AND THERE IS SOME FLEXIBILITY IN THE DESIGN OF REPLACEMENT IF IT REFLECTS THE SCALE AND PROPORTION OF THE TRADITIONAL PLANO STOREFRONT.
AGAIN, THOSE HORIZONTAL PROPORTIONS ARE, ARE THE KEY IN THIS ONE, CUZ THAT ROLL UP DOOR IS NOT TYPICAL FOR PLANO STOREFRONTS.
UH, THEY WOULD TYPICALLY BE DIVIDED IN THE MULTIPLE DOORS AND WINDOWS FOR THOSE PORT VERTICAL PROPORTIONS.
AND AGAIN, UM, FRENCH BI FOLDING OR SLIDE AND FOLD TYPE DOORS THAT HAVE BEEN USED ELSEWHERE IN THE DISTRICT, UH, WOULD BE A MORE APPROPRIATE APPLICATION TO MAINTAIN THAT OPEN AIR EFFECT.
UH, TO SUMMARIZE THE ISSUES, AGAIN, THE BUILDING IS CONTRIBUTING, BUT HAS LOST SOME OF THAT INTEGRITY DUE TO THE ALTERATIONS OVER THE YEARS.
UH, WE, WE URGE CAUTION THAT ANY FUTURE ALTERATIONS NOT REDUCE THE INTEGRITY AND JEOPARDIZE THE CONTRIBUTING STATUS OF THE PROPERTY.
AGAIN, THOSE PREVIOUS DOORS WERE NOT HISTORIC, SO THAT'S NOT NECESSARILY THE CONCERN HERE, BUT WE WANT THE DOORS TO MEET THAT, THE REPLACEMENT DOORS TO MEET THE DESIGN STANDARDS.
UH, IDEALLY RECONSTRUCTION WOULD BE THE PREFERRED TREATMENT HERE, UM, BUT A CONTEMPORARY INTERPRETATION COULD ALSO BE APPROPRIATE IF IT MEETS THOSE PROPORTIONS AND THE REPETITION AS DESCRIBED.
I'M GONNA WRAP UP HERE, UM, SINCE THE HERITAGE COMMISSION DOESN'T HAVE THE VIDEO, LIKE YOU MAY BE USED TO SEEING WITH PLANNING AND ZONING, I'M GONNA RECAP THE DISCUSSION AT THE COMMISSION.
UM, IT IS OUTLINED IN THE VICE-CHAIR REPORT PROVIDED IN THE PACKET.
UM, BUT AFTER A STAFF PRESENTATION, THE APPLICANT DID STATE THAT, UH, THE ACCORDION DOORS WERE IN BAD CONDITION.
UH, THEY, THEY WEREN'T BEING GONNA BE ABLE TO BE SAVED.
UM, THEY WERE NOT AWARE THAT THE CA WAS REQUIRED.
THE BUILDING OWNER DIDN'T INFORM HIM, NOR DID HIS CONTRACTOR.
UH, HE BELIEVES THAT ROLLUP DOORS CREATE THAT UNIQUE DINING EXPERIENCE AND, AND HELPS PROMOTE ITS BUSINESS.
AND, UH, COMMENTS THAT, THAT PEOPLE MAKE POSITIVE COMMENTS.
UH, HE OWNS SEVERAL RESTAURANTS WITH ROLL UP DOORS, AND THEY, THEY'RE ALL VERY SUCCESSFUL BECAUSE OF THAT CONCEPT, AND HE DOESN'T BELIEVE THE DOOR DETRACTS FROM THE HISTORIC CHARACTER.
SOME QUESTIONS FROM THE COMMISSION TO THE APPLICANT WAS, DO YOU HAVE OTHER RESTAURANTS THAT USE THIS STYLE OF DOOR? AND ARE THEY IN HISTORIC DISTRICTS? AGAIN, THE ANSWER, HE, HE DOES HAVE RESTAURANTS, BUT THAT USE THESE DOORS, BUT THEY'RE NOT LOCATED IN HISTORIC DISTRICTS.
A COMMENT WAS THAT THE BUILDING LOOKS GENERALLY VERY APPEALING.
IT'S UNFORTUNATE THE OWNER DIDN'T INFORM ME OF THE REQUIREMENT TO GET A CA.
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AND THEN ARE YOU OPPOSED TO REPLACING WITH A MORE SUITABLE DOOR? AND AGAIN, THE APPLICANT, UH, STATED THAT THE, THE DOOR HAD ALREADY, ALREADY BEEN, HAD ALREADY BEEN INSTALLED, THE MONEY HAD BEEN SPENT.IT WAS HIS INTENT TO SEE THIS PROCESS, UH, THROUGH THE APPEALS.
UM, SOME QUESTIONS FROM COMMISSION TO STAFF.
SOME OF THESE YOU MAY BE THINKING YOURSELF IS, WAS STAFF ABLE TO SIT DOWN WITH THE APPLICANT AND GO THROUGH THE OPTIONS? AGAIN? WE, WE ALWAYS TRY TO DO THAT.
WE TRY TO GET THEM TO A YES, UH, BUT IN THIS CASE IT W IT WAS PRETTY CLEAR THAT THEY WERE INTENT ON, ON SEEKING APPROVAL FOR WHAT HAD ALREADY BEEN INSTALLED.
UH, HOW DID THIS GO THROUGH PERMITTING? WITHOUT ALERTING THE APPLICANT, THE CA IS REQUIRED.
AGAIN, THAT'S BECAUSE THE SCOPE OF THAT PERMIT DIDN'T INCLUDE THE EXTERIOR OF RENOVATIONS.
TYPICALLY, IF IT HAD BUILDING INSPECTIONS, WOULD'VE FLAGGED IT AND ALERTED THE HERITAGE TEAM AND, AND THE CA WOULD'VE BEEN REQUIRED AT THAT POINT.
IF IT'S DENIED, CAN THEY CHOOSE NOT TO REPLACE IT? UH, WELL AGAIN, AND THAT POINT, IT'S A, IT'S A ZONING VIOLATION.
SO, UH, THERE IS ENFORCEMENT, UH, STEPS THAT COULD BE TAKEN IF IT'S APPROVED WITH THE PROPERTY AUTOMATICALLY LOSE CONTRIBUTING STATUS.
AGAIN, WE HAVE THIRD PARTY COMPANIES COME THROUGH EVERY FEW YEARS AND THEY GIVE US OUR THIRD, THEIR THIRD PARTY RECOMMENDATION AS TO WHETHER THEY'RE CONTRIBUTING OR NOT.
WE THINK THAT IT, IT COULD LOSE THE STATUS, UM, BASED ON ITS APPROVAL, BUT IT'S NOT GUARANTEED.
UH, WOULD THE LOSS OF CONTRIBUTING STATUS IMPACT THE PROPERTY OWNER OR THE APPLICANT IN THIS CASE IS THE PROPERTY OWNER, THEY ARE THE ONES WHO ARE ELIGIBLE TO RECEIVE THE TAX EXEMPTION OR THE TAX CREDITS FROM THE STATE AND THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.
UH, HOW WILL THE LOSS OF CONTRIBUTING STATUS IMPACT THE DISTRICT OVERALL? UM, THIS ONE PROPERTY GOING TO NON-CONTRIBUTING IS NOT GONNA MAKE, UH, IS NOT GONNA CHANGE THINGS RADICALLY.
BUT AGAIN, AS YOU PIECE THESE OVER TIME, YOU START TO SEE THE SUM OF ALL THIS BECOME, UH, AT SOME POINT THE DISTRICT IS IN JEOPARDY.
UM, AND IS THERE ANYTHING TO MAKE THE ROLLUP DOOR WORKABLE? UH, WE, WE'VE THOUGHT ABOUT THIS A LOT.
IN, IN OUR OPINION, THERE'S REALLY NOT A LOT THAT CAN BE DONE TO, TO UTILIZE THE EXISTING DOOR.
UH, FOLLOWING THOSE QUESTIONS THEY HAD DISCUSSION.
UM, I THINK THE KEY POINT WAS THEY FELT THE PROPERTY OWNER SHOULD HAVE INFORMED THEM OF THE APP OF THE REQUIREMENT TO GET A CA AGAIN, THEY HAD, THEY HAD GONE THROUGH THIS PROCESS IN 2019 AND WERE AWARE OF THE REQUIREMENTS, UM, THAT THE PROPERTY OWNER IS THE ONE IMPACTED BY THE LOSS OF THE CONTRIBUTING STATUS.
AND THAT MIGHT BE AN INCIDENT FOR THE PROPERTY OWNER TO PARTICIPATE IN REPLACING THE DOOR.
AND THEN THERE WAS CONCERNS THAT THAT PRECEDENT WOULD BE SET IN ALLOWING THE ROLLUP DOORS AND HOW THAT WOULD AFFECT THE REST OF THE DISTRICT.
TO SUM UP, THE HERITAGE COMMISSION VOTED SEVEN OH TO DENY DENIER REQUEST FOR THE FOLLOWING REASONS.
THEY FELT THE STYLE DESIGN AND MATERIALS, UH, DIMINISHED THE HISTORIC INTEGRITY OF THE BUILDING.
THE DOOR DID NOT MEET THE DOWNTOWN STANDARDS, AND IT'S NOT A COMPATIBLE ALTERATION.
THE DOOR JEOPARDIZES THE STATUS AS A CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE AND APPROVAL OF THE DOOR MAY SET A PRECEDENT FOR THE DOWNTOWN DISTRICT AND INFLUENCE FUTURE ALTERATIONS IN THEIR CONTRIBUTING STATUS.
UM, AND AGAIN, THE ORDINANCE DOES ALLOW THE APPLICANT TO APPEAL CITY COUNCIL.
SO YOUR OPTIONS TONIGHT ARE TO GRANT THE APPEAL OR TO UPHOLD THE DECISION OF THE HERITAGE COMMISSION.
AND WITH THAT, I'M HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS.
COUNCIL, MR. ELLI? THANK YOU MAYOR, AND THANK YOU, UH, FOR THAT GREAT PRESENTATION.
UH, I CERTAINLY SYMPATHIZE WITH A, A SMALL BUSINESS OWNER LIKE MR. MCGILL.
I ALSO THINK IT'S, YOU KNOW, IT'S VERY IMPORTANT TO, TO MAINTAIN OUR DOWNTOWN HISTORIC DISTRICT AND MAKE SURE THAT ALL PROPERTY OWNERS ARE, ARE TREATED FAIRLY.
IF I'M UNDERSTANDING YOU CORRECTLY, IF, IF, IF THIS TYPE OF ALTERATION WERE TO HAPPEN AT EVERY PROPERTY THAT'S A CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE IN THE DOWNTOWN HERITAGE DISTRICT, WOULD WE BE, UH, THE DISTRICT WOULD BE JEOPARDIZED POTENTIALLY, UH, NATIONAL REGISTER STATUS WOULD BE, WOULD BE JEOPARDIZED? AM I UNDERSTANDING OF THAT CORRECTLY? THAT'S CORRECT, AND I DON'T WANNA OVERSELL IT, BUT IT, IT IS A RISK.
UH, AGAIN, THOSE THIRD PARTIES GIVE US THEIR RECOMMENDATIONS AND ENOUGH, IF ENOUGH BUILDINGS ARE NOT CONTRIBUTING, IT DOESN'T MEAN OUR REQUIREMENTS FOR A HISTORIC DISTRICT.
AND YOU ALSO ALLUDED TO, UH, TO, TO THE, UH, THE TAX INCENTIVE PROGRAM, UH, YOU KNOW, FOR, UH, UH, UH, HERITAGE TAX EXEMPTIONS.
UH, I THINK YOU SAID THAT FOR THIS PAST YEAR AFTER THE ALTERATION WAS MADE, THIS PROPERTY DID NOT APPLY TO, UH, PARTICIPATE IN THE TAX EXEMPTIONS, BUT PRIOR TO THAT, HISTORICALLY, HAS THE PROPERTY RECEIVED TAX EXEMPTIONS THROUGH THE HERITAGE TAX EXEMPTION PROGRAM? YES, THEY HAVE.
UM, IN 2022, THEY WERE DENIED FOR NOT HAVING MADE THEIR CORE REGULAR REPAIRS.
AND THEN THEY CHOSE NOT TO REAPPLY AGAIN TO THE PROGRAM FOR THIS YEAR.
AND JUST TO GET A FEEL FOR HOW MUCH PLANO TAXPAYERS HAVE INVESTED IN, IN, UH, THE HERITAGE TAX EXEMPTION PROGRAM, AS I RECALL, TYPICALLY WHEN WE APPROVE THAT LIST, IT'S SOMEWHERE OVER A HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS PER YEAR, UH, OF, OF TAX EXEMPTIONS IN THE DOWNTOWN HERITAGE DISTRICT.
IS THAT, IS THAT CORRECT? I DON'T KNOW THE NUMBER OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD.
VESH, YOU KNOW, THE NUMBER, I'M SORRY.
WELL, I I I I COULD BE WRONG ABOUT THAT, THAT WAS OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD TOO, JUST THINKING ABOUT, YOU KNOW, THAT LIST COMES IN FRONT OF US ONCE A YEAR, AND I FEEL LIKE THAT'S BALLPARK, YOU KNOW, MAYBE WHAT THE, UH, WHAT THE, UH, EXEMPTIONS COST.
BUT, UH, AND, AND, AND DO Y'ALL REMEMBER HOW MANY YEARS THAT THAT PROGRAM HAS
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BEEN GOING ON? UH, I KNOW IT'S BEEN A LONG TIME SINCE THE EIGHTIES.SO, UM, SO I, I THINK IT'S FAIR TO SAY THAT PLANO TAXPAYERS HAVE INVESTED A VERY SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF MONEY