[00:00:01]
[CALL TO ORDER]
YOU ALL FOR JOINING US TONIGHT FOR OUR OCTOBER 2ND PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION AT SEVEN O'CLOCK.AND WE ARE CONVENED INTO OUR REGULAR SESSION.
IF YOU WOULD PLEASE RISE AND JOIN ME IN THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE.
I PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE TO THE FLAG OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA AND TO THE REPUBLIC FOR WHICH IT STANDS, ONE NATION UNDER GOD, INDIVISIBLE, WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL.
[COMMENTS OF PUBLIC INTEREST]
THIS PORTION OF THE MEETING IS TO ALLOW UP TO THREE MINUTES PER SPEAKER WITH 30 TOTAL MINUTES ON ITEMS OF INTEREST OR CONCERN AND NOT ON ITEMS THAT ARE ON THE CURRENT AGENDA.THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MAY NOT DISCUSS THESE ITEMS, BUT MAY RESPOND WITH FACTUAL OR POLICY INFORMATION.
THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MAY CHOOSE TO PLACE THE ITEM ON A FUTURE AGENDA.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER MAY MODIFY THESE TIMES AS DEEMED NECESSARY.
DO WE HAVE ANYBODY IN THE AUDIENCE THAT WOULD WISH TO SPEAK? NO, WE DO NOT.
BUT MY UNDERSTANDING MR. LALE, IS YOU WANTED TO MAKE SOME COMMENTS.
I HAVE FRAMED THESE COMMENTS AS IF I WAS AT THE LECTERN AND TAKING MY THREE MINUTES, AND SO THAT'S THE STYLE THAT YOU'LL SEE.
I RESIDE AT 1724 15TH PLACE, PLANO, TEXAS 7 5 0 7 4.
AT OUR SEPTEMBER 5TH MEETING, I MADE A VERY SPECIFIC REQUEST.
THIS REQUEST CALLED FOR A REVIEW OF ARTICLE 21 RESIDENTIAL ADJACENCY STANDARDS AND HOW THEY ARE APPLIED.
I REQUESTED THAT THIS CONVERSATION BE ADDED TO THE NEXT REGULAR SCHEDULED MEETING.
I STATED THAT THIS CONVERSATION SHOULD REVIEW THE APPLICATION OF THE RESIDENTIAL ADJACENCY STANDARDS AS APPLIED IN ZONING CASE 2021 DASH 21 AND THE ADOPTION OF ORDINANCE NUMBER 2021 DASH NINE DASH 26.
I STATED THAT THIS REQUEST IS AN APPEAL UNDER 1.1100 INTERPRETATIONS OF OUR ZONING ORDINANCE IN THE MEETING NOTES FROM SEPTEMBER 5TH THAT WERE PRESENTED AT OUR S SEPTEMBER 18TH MEETING.
THE NOTES FOR ITEMS FOR FUTURE AGENDA STATED, COMMISSIONER LYLE REQUESTED A DISCUSSION ON RESIDENTIAL ADJACENCY STANDARDS.
THE REQUEST WAS SECONDED BY FIRST VICE CHAIR KERRY.
STAFF RECOMMENDED BRINGING THE WORK THIS BACK AS A WORK PROGRAM TOPIC, UH, TO THE COMMISSION FOR FUTURE DISCUSSION.
IT WAS NOT PLACED ON THE NEXT REGULAR AMEND MEETING OR THE MEETING AFTER THAT.
WHAT WAS RECORDED IS THE MOST DUMBED DOWN ITERATION OF THE REQUEST POSSIBLE.
EACH OF US AS COMMISSIONERS HAS TAKEN AN OATH TO HOPE, UPHOLD THE CONSTITUTION, THE LAWS OF THE STATE OF TEXAS AND PLANO.
WE OPEN WITH THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE THAT CONCLUDES WITH JUSTICE FOR ALL.
PART OF OUR DUTIES AS COMMISSIONERS INCLUDE SECTION 13 POINT 812 900 WITHIN OUR ZONING ORDINANCE.
NOW, FOR A BIT OF HISTORY, I BROUGHT THE ALLEGED SITE PLAN ERROR IN THE AFOREMENTIONED ZONING CASE AND ORDINANCE TO MARK ISRAELSON AND JACK CARR OVER A YEAR AGO IN AUGUST OF 2022.
THIS LED TO TWO ADDITIONAL MEETINGS LAST FALL WHERE I REASSERTED MY CONCERNS TO TO LORI SCHWARTZ AND CHRISTINA DAY FOLLOWING THE FINAL MEETING.
NOTHING HAPPENED UNTIL I BECAME A COMMISSIONER.
SHORTLY AFTER BEING SWORN IN, I REACHED OUT TO OUR PLANNING DIRECTOR AND ERIC HILL AND REMINDED THEM THAT I'D TAKEN AN OATH TO UPHOLD OUR LAWS AND THAT I'D NEVER RECEIVED A RESPONSE ON MY CONCERN AT THE HOME DEPOT SITE PLAN THAT WAS PART OF THE AFOREMENTIONED ORDINANCE IN ZONING CASE.
THESE ORDINANCES IN NO WAY INVOLVE ME.
THIS CASE INVOLVES NOT EXTENDING THE REQUIRED RESIDENTIAL ADJACENCY STANDARDS TO THE DOUGLAS COMMUNITY.
OUR COUNTRY HAS A HORRENDOUS HISTORY OF NOT PROVIDING EQUALITY UNDER THE LAW TO THE AFRICAN AMERICAN COMMUNITY.
AND I WILL HAVE NO PART IN THIS PRACTICE.
I'M REQUESTING THAT UNDER THE AUTHORITY GIVEN TO THIS COMMISSION IN OUR ADOPTED ZONING ORDINANCE, THAT THIS COMMISSION CALLS AN IMMEDIATE REVIEW OF 2021 DASH 0 21.
THAT'S A ZONING CASE AND ORDINANCE NUMBER 2021 DASH NINE DASH 26.
THESE CASES SHOULD BE REVIEWED AGAINST OUR ENTIRE ZONING ORDINANCE, SPECIFICAL ARTICLE, SPECIFICALLY ARTICLE THREE, ARTICLE 12, AND ARTICLE 21.
FINALLY, I WOULD ALSO LIKE TO INFORM THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION THAT I WAS ASKED BY A CITY COUNCIL MEMBER TODAY TO RESIGN MY POSITION ON THIS COMMISSION AND TO DO SO BY WEDNESDAY EVENING THE DAY AFTER TOMORROW.
THE REASON GIVEN TO ME WHEN REQUESTING MY RE RESIGNATION WAS THAT I HAVE TOO MANY CONFLICTS WITH LAND OWNERSHIP AND PLANO.
IT ISPOR IMPORTANT TO ME TO LET EACH OF YOU KNOW THESE FACTS.
AND TO BE CLEAR, I HAVE NOT RESIGNED MY POSITION IN CLOSING.
THERE IS NOTHING MORE FOUNDATIONAL TO THE AMERICAN SYSTEM OF GOVERNMENT THAN FOR THE PEOPLE TO BE ABLE TO QUESTION THEIR GOVERNMENT AND TO HOLD THE GOVERNMENT ACCOUNTABLE TO THE LAW.
I WOULD IMPLORE EACH OF YOU AS COMMISSIONERS HERE TONIGHT THAT IT IS NOT OUR RIGHT TO DO THIS REVIEW AS I'VE REQUESTED.
ANY OTHER SPEAKERS? NO, WE DO NOT.
[CONSENT AGENDA]
AGENDA.THE CONSENT AGENDA WILL BE ACTED UPON IN ONE MOTION AND CONTAINS ITEMS WHICH ARE ROUTINE AND TYPICALLY NON-CONTROVERSIAL ITEMS MAY BE REMOVED FROM THIS AGENDA FOR INDIVIDUAL CONSIDERATION BY COMMISSIONERS OR STAFF.
MR. BRONSKI, I'D LIKE TO REMOVE ITEM A.
[00:05:01]
ALRIGHT, WE WILL REMOVE ITEM A FROM CONSENT.ANYONE LIKE TO REMOVE ANYTHING ELSE FROM CONSENT? I MOVE.
WE APPROVE THE CONSENT AGENDA AS SUBMITTED WITH ITEM A REMOVED.
I SECOND THAT MAY I HAVE A MOTION BY COMMISSIONER BRONSKI WITH A SECOND BY COMMISSIONER CARE.
YOU APPROVE THE CONSENT AGENDA WITH THE EXCEPTION OF ITEM A.
THAT CARRIES EIGHT TO ZERO ITEM A.
[a. Approval of Minutes: Monday, September 18, 2023]
IT'S JUST THE APPROVAL OF THE MINUTES FROM THE SEPTEMBER 18TH MEETING.IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING THEY WERE, GO AHEAD MR. IFF.
WE APPROVE ITEM A WITH THE ADDITION OF THE FINDINGS, UM, SUMMARIES THAT EACH MEMBER FILLED OUT AS AN ADDITION TO THE MINUTES AS PRESENTED.
SO WE HAVE A MOTION TO APPROVE CONSENT AGENDA ITEM A, THE MINUTES WITH THE INCLUSION OF THE FINDINGS FORMS. THAT WAS, UH, PROVIDED TO US THIS EVENING WITH A SECOND BY COMMISSIONER BROSKY.
[6. (MK) Discussion: Short-Term Rental Study Phase I Report - Presentation of the Short-term Rental Study Phase I Report and Task Force Findings. Project #DI2023-017. Applicant: City of Plano]
MOVE ON TO ITEMS FOR INDIVIDUAL CONSIDERATION ON OUR, UH, AGENDA THIS EVENING IS AN UPDATE ON THE SHORT-TERM RENTAL STUDY, PHASE ONE REPORT, UH, WHICH IS ITEM SIX ACTUALLY.AND WE'RE GONNA GO AHEAD AND MOVE THAT UP.
UM, SO WE CAN GET THAT PRESENTATION OUT OF THE WAY FOR THOSE THAT ARE HERE FOR THAT.
SO NON-PUBLIC HEARING ITEMS, THE PRESIDING OFFICER WILL PERMIT LIMITED PUBLIC COMMENT FOR ITEMS ON THE AGENDA NOT POSTED FOR A PUBLIC HEARING.
PRESIDING OFFICER WILL ESTABLISH TIME LIMITS BASED UPON THE NUMBER OF SPEAKER REQUESTS, LENGTH OF THE AGENDA, AND TO ENSURE MEETING EFFICIENCY AND MAY INCLUDE A TOTAL TIME LIMIT AGENDA.
ITEM NUMBER SIX, DISCUSSION, SHORT-TERM RENTAL STUDY.
PHASE ONE REPORT PRESENTATION OF THE SHORT-TERM RENTAL PHASE STUDY.
SORRY, RENTAL STUDY, PHASE ONE REPORT AND TASK FORCE FINDINGS.
I'M CHRISTINA SEBASTIAN, LAND RECORDS PLANNING MANAGER.
WE HAVE A UPDATE FOR YOU ABOUT THE SHORT-TERM RENTAL STUDY AND THE PHASE ONE REPORT AND THE TASK FORCE FINDINGS.
UM, AS YOU KNOW, THE SHORT-TERM RENTAL STUDY WAS INITIATED BY COUNCIL IN NOVEMBER OF LAST YEAR.
UH, THERE WERE A NUMBER OF STEPS TO THIS STUDY.
WE YOU WITH THE CITY COUNCIL, UM, HELPED ENACT A INTERIM BAN ON SHORT-TERM RENTALS BACK IN MAY, UM, AS AN INTERIM MEASURE.
AND THEN IN OUR OUTREACH AND DATA COLLECTION, WE HAVE TWO PHASES.
UH, WE'RE HERE TO REPORT OUT ON PHASE ONE.
AND THEN AFTER THE COMPLETION OF THAT, THAT PHASE, WE'LL MOVE TO THE PERMANENT MEASURES WHERE WE WILL BE BRINGING, UM, POTENTIAL ORDINANCE AMENDMENTS IN TIME FOR THE BEFORE THE INTERIM BAN EXPIRES NEXT MAY.
UM, AS PART OF PHASE ONE IN THE OUTREACH AND DATA COLLECTION.
AS YOU KNOW, WE HAVE BEEN WORKING WITH DECKER TECHNOLOGIES TO PROCURE THIRD PARTY DATA.
THEY MONITOR PLATFORMS AND CROSS-REFERENCE WITH PUBLICLY AVAILABLE DATA.
UM, AND THEN THAT INFORMATION HAS BEEN, AGAIN, CROSS-REFERENCED WITH PUBLIC SAFETY COMMUNICATIONS CALL FOR SERVICE DATA.
AND THEN WE HAVE ALSO BEEN WORKING WITH GAP STRATEGIES FOR PUBLIC OUTREACH SUPPORT.
WE HAVE HAD A COMMUNITY SURVEY AND AN OPEN HOUSE, UM, OVER THE, THE SPRING AND SUMMER.
AND THEN THERE IS A TASK FORCE THAT WAS APPOINTED BY CITY COUNCIL MADE UP OF 22 PLANO RESIDENTS.
THEY'VE HAD THREE MEETINGS TO DATE.
AND PHASE ONE IS FOCUSED ON DEF DEFINING THE PROBLEM.
PHASE TWO WILL BE FOCUSED ON OUTLINING POTENTIAL SOLUTIONS THAT WILL BE IN DRAFTED AS PART OF THE PERMANENT MEASURES PHASE.
UM, SO WITH THAT, I'D LIKE TO INTRODUCE A COUPLE OF SPEAKERS TONIGHT.
UM, SO WE HAVE JEFF BARTON HERE WITH GAP STRATEGIES AS WELL AS OUR CHAIR FOR THE TASK FORCE.
UH, PHIL DYER, WHO WILL BOTH BE PROVIDING SOME ADDITIONAL INFORMATION.
GOOD EVENING, UH, CHAIR, UH, COMMISSION MEMBERS.
IT'S A PLEASURE TO BE HERE AGAIN FOR THE RECORD.
JEFF BARTON WITH GAP STRATEGIES.
I'M HERE WITH MY BUSINESS PARTNER, KARA BUFFINGTON, AND ALSO WITH, UH, CHAIR DYER.
THERE ARE SOME OTHER, UH, TASK FORCE MEMBERS HERE AS WELL.
KAREN AND I, UH, ALONG WITH YOUR STAFF, HAVE BEEN, UH, LEADING, UH, THIS FACILITATION EFFORT.
WE WANT TO TAKE YOU THROUGH THAT VERY BRIEFLY TONIGHT TO GIVE YOU AN UPDATE ON SOME OF THE THINGS THAT ARE GOING ON.
SO WE WANNA TALK TO YOU VERY QUICKLY ABOUT, UH, THE TIMELINE ITSELF, ABOUT WHAT'S BEEN GOING ON WITH THE TASK FORCE.
REMIND YOU WHO THOSE MEMBERS ARE.
UH, CHAIR DYER WILL PRESENT SOME FINDINGS.
I'LL FOLLOW UP WITH SOME THINGS THAT HAVE GROWN OUT OF THOSE FINDINGS.
AND WE WANT TO GIVE A, AN UPDATE ABOUT PUBLIC ENGAGEMENT AND LET YOU KNOW WHAT THE NEXT STEPS OF THIS STUDY WILL BE.
SO THE STUDY SO FAR, IF YOU'LL REMEMBER, UH, THIS BEGAN, UH,
[00:10:01]
UH, LAST SPRING AND WAS KICKED OFF WITH A COMMUNITY SURVEY.WE GOT GOOD RESPONSE ON THAT COMMUNITY SURVEY.
UH, THERE WAS A CITY TASK FORCE APPOINTED THAT WENT TO WORK IN JUNE.
THEY'VE GIVEN A LOT OF TIME TO THIS.
IT'S BEEN A, IT'S BEEN A VERY STRONG TASK FORCE.
AND, UH, THEN WE'RE HERE TO REPORT TO YOU ALL.
WE'LL BE AT COUNCIL NEXT WEEK, AND THAT WILL MOVE US TOWARD PHASE TWO THAT YOU HEARD CHRISTINA TALK ABOUT, WHERE WE BEGIN TO LOOK AT SOLUTIONS THAT WILL HAPPEN LATER THIS FALL AND THROUGH THE WINTER, GIVING YOU TIME TO ADDRESS THIS ISSUE BEFORE THE INTERIM BAND MIGHT EXPIRE, UH, LATER NEXT SPRING.
YOU CAN SEE SOME OF THOSE TIMELINES, UH, LAID OUT HERE IN GRAPHIC FORM.
THE TASK FORCE MET FIRST ON JUNE 29TH.
UH, THERE HAVE BEEN THREE MEETINGS SO FAR.
THERE'S ALSO BEEN A PUBLIC OPEN HOUSE.
I THINK A FEW OF YOU, UH, WERE THERE AGAIN.
GOT GOOD RESPONSE AT THAT, UH, IN LIFE AND IN PERSON, UH, UH, OPEN HOUSE.
BUT WE ALSO HAD A VIRTUAL OPEN HOUSE THAT HAD EVEN MORE PARTICIPATION.
AND WE'LL BE TALKING ABOUT THAT IN JUST A MOMENT.
YOU ALL ARE AWARE, BUT JUST TO REMIND YOU WHO THE MEMBERS HAVE BEEN ON THAT TASK FORCE, UH, CHAIRED BY PHIL DYER, UH, WHO YOU'LL HEAR FROM IN JUST A MOMENT.
WE'VE HAD GOOD ATTENDANCE, WE'VE HAD GOOD PARTICIPATION, AND A LOT OF, UH, YOU KNOW, VERY FRANK DISCUSSION, UH, WITHIN THE TASK FORCE.
THE IDEA IS TO IDENTIFY WHAT THE ISSUES ARE SO THAT WE CAN BEGIN CRAFTING SOLUTIONS, BEGIN THINKING ABOUT SOLUTIONS.
AND WE TRIED TO, WE TRIED TO KEEP THAT PRETTY NARROW IN THIS FIRST PHASE.
REALLY FOCUS ON WHAT ARE THE PROBLEMS, UH, IF THERE ARE PROBLEMS, FIRST OF ALL, AND THEN WHAT THOSE PROBLEMS, UH, MIGHT BE.
ADDED ADDITIONAL DATA TO THAT WITH SOME PRESENTATIONS FROM, UH, YOUR POLICE CHIEF, FROM OTHER MEMBERS OF YOUR STAFF.
THE CITIZEN OPEN HOUSE AND THE, THE SURVEY, WHICH REALLY HELPED INFORM SOME OF THE DELIBERATIONS.
AND THEN CAME BACK IN A FINAL MEETING AND REALLY HAMMERED OUT SOME EARLY FINDINGS.
I WANNA BE CLEAR ABOUT A FEW THINGS YOU'LL HEAR, SAY IT SEVERAL TIMES.
THE THE REPORT THAT COMES TO YOU TONIGHT IS UNANIMOUS FROM THE TASK FORCE.
THAT DOES NOT MEAN THAT EVERY ONE OF THE TASK FORCE HAS FORCE AGREED WITH EVERY FINDING OR EVERY S SUPPORT CLAUSE OF THOSE FINDINGS.
AND WE'LL ELABORATE ON THAT FOR YOU AS WE GO.
JUST TO REFRESH YOU ABOUT PUBLIC OUTREACH, 'CAUSE IT'S BEEN A CRITICAL PART OF THIS TO TRY AND GET AS MANY CITIZENS IN PLANO INVOLVED AS POSSIBLE.
UH, THERE WAS A SURVEY AVAILABLE FOR CITIZENS FOR ABOUT A MONTH FROM APRIL 17TH TO MAY 17TH.
IT WAS PRIMARILY DIGITAL, BUT THERE WERE ALSO PAPER COPIES AVAILABLE.
AND WE DID HAVE SOME PEOPLE TAKE ADVANTAGE OF PAPER COPIES MORE THAN 6,100 PEOPLE PARTICIPATED.
UH, WE ALSO HAD THE IN-PERSON OPEN HOUSE THAT I ALLUDED TO.
109, UH, FOLKS SHOWED UP FOR THAT.
THAT IS EXCLUSIVE OF THE TASK FORCE MEMBERS.
THERE WERE STAFFS TASK FORCE MEMBERS, UH, CONSULTANTS.
BUT ONCE YOU TAKE THOSE OUT OF THE PIE, THERE WERE 109, UH, CIVILIANS WHO SHOWED UP, UH, FOR THE EVENING.
UH, AND NOT ALL OF THOSE TOOK POLLING QUESTIONS, BUT WE HAD SOME DETAILED SURVEY QUESTIONS THAT FOLLOWED UP ON THE CITIZEN SURVEY THERE.
ANOTHER 18 PROVIDED, UH, ADDITIONAL WRITTEN COMMENTS.
AND THEN ONLINE, WE HAD ALMOST 2000 PEOPLE PARTICIPATE IN THAT SAME EXERCISE.
SO ONLINE, UH, FOLKS COULD REALLY WALK THROUGH THE OPEN HOUSE AND REALLY SEE THE KINDS OF EXHIBITS THAT WERE THERE AT THE OPEN HOUSE, GET THAT SAME KIND OF INFORMATION, AND THEN PARTICIPATE, UH, IN A NUMBER OF QUESTIONS, UH, THAT CLUE THEM INTO KIND OF THE EARLY DELIBERATIONS OF THE TASK FORCE AND THE DIRECTION THAT THE TASK FORCE WAS HEADED SO THEY COULD SEE IF THEY GENERALLY AGREED.
UM, AND THAT LED US, UH, TO A FINAL MEETING WHERE WE, WHERE WE WALKED THROUGH THE EARLY DELIBERATIONS AND THE, THE EARLY, UH, TENTATIVE FINDINGS THAT THE TASK FORCE HAD DEVELOPED, UM, MATCHED THOSE AGAINST WHAT WE'D HEARD FROM CITIZENS IN THE OPEN HOUSE.
LOOKED AT DATA FROM THE POLICE DEPARTMENT.
A LOT OF FOLLOW UP QUESTIONS FROM, FROM, UH, MEMBERS.
AND WHILE MEMBERS DID NOT COME TO UNANIMITY, THERE WAS A REALLY STRONG CONSENSUS AND UNANIMITY AROUND SOME KEY ISSUES.
SO IMPORTANT FOR YOU TO KNOW THAT THERE ARE STILL SOME, YOU KNOW, UH, UNSURPRISINGLY TO YOU ALL, I THINK SOME STRONG DIVERGENCE OF OPINION, UH, BUT ALSO SOME STRONG CONSENSUS AROUND SOME KEY ISSUES.
AND I THINK PHIL DYER IS GONNA WALK YOU THROUGH, UH,
[00:15:01]
THESE FINDINGS.UH, THANKS VERY MUCH, CHAIRMAN MC DOWNS.
UM, PHIL, OUR 39 YEAR RESIDENT OF PLANO.
AND AS ALWAYS, THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE THAT YOU GIVE TO US.
UM, THE, THE TASK FORCE HAS BEEN AN INTERESTING, UH, UH, GROUP.
WE'VE BEEN VERY FORTUNATE TO HAVE MICHELLE DEANDRA DOING A GREAT JOB, TRULY KEEPING US ON TRACK ON THE LEGAL ISSUES.
UH, CHRIS, CHRISTINA, SEBASTIAN, CHRISTINA DAY AND THE WHOLE PLANNING DEPARTMENT HAVE GIVEN US REAMS OF INFORMATION AND DATA MIND BOGGLING.
THAT HAS BEEN TREMENDOUSLY HELPFUL AS WE GO FORWARD.
AND OF COURSE, JEFF BARTON AND HIS TEAM AT GAF STRATEGIES ARE DOING TRULY A GREAT JOB.
UM, THE TASK FORCES, YOU ARE WELL AWARE, WERE WERE SELECTED BY THE CITY COUNCIL FROM APPLICANTS.
AND, UH, IT'S A BROAD CROSS SECTION OF THE COMMUNITY.
WE HAVE PEOPLE WHO MAKE MAJORITY OF THEIR INCOME OR GOOD PART OF THEIR INCOME FROM THE SHORT TERM RENTAL INDUSTRY.
AND SO THEY HAVE A VERY PASSIONATE VIEW ABOUT IT ON THIS, ON ONE SIDE.
ON THE OTHER HAND, WE HAVE MEMBERS OF THE, OF THE COMMITTEE, PRIVATE CITIZENS, PROPERTY OWNERS WHO HAVE HAD UP CLOSE AND PERSONAL VERY NEGATIVE INTERACTIONS WITH SHORT-TERM RENTALS.
AND, UH, SO AS YOU CAN WELL IMAGINE, WE'VE GOT TWO VERY BROAD ENDS OF THE SPECTRUM THERE.
AND IF YOU THINK IT'S DIFFICULT SOMETIMES GETTING UNANIMITY OUT OF EIGHT, TRY TRYING TO GET IT OUT OF 22.
AND I THINK MICHELLE CAN TELL YOU THE SHORT-TERM RENTAL ORDINANCES THAT ARE STANDING UP TO LEGAL CHALLENGES ARE THOSE THAT HAVE BEEN THROUGH A PROCESS LIKE THIS OF EXCE, UH, EXTREME DATA GATHERING, GOING THROUGH THE PROCESS, SLOWLY, ALLOWING INPUT FROM ALL PARTIES RATHER THAN JUST LEAFING FORWARD INTO AN A NEW ORDINANCE.
SO THIS PROCESS, WHILE MANY OF US FEEL, FEEL THAT IT'S GOING TOO SLOWLY, UH, IS NECESSARY TO HAVE A PRODUCT THAT'LL STAND UP TO LEGAL CHALLENGES, WHICH ARE HAPPENING ALL OVER THE COUNTRY.
SO YOUR PATIENCE WITH IT IS APPRECIATED.
WE'RE ALL TRYING TO BE PATIENT WITH IT.
'CAUSE I THINK WE'D LIKE TO MOVE A LITTLE MORE QUICKLY DESPITE THE DIVERSITY ON OUR PANEL OF VIEWPOINTS ON SHORT TERM RENTALS.
AND, AND THE COMMENTS HAVE BEEN STRONG.
BUT THROUGHOUT, I'VE BEEN VERY PLEASED WITH THE GROUP'S, UH, COURTESY TO EACH OTHER, EVEN WHEN THERE'S EXTREME DISAGREEMENT THERE, THERE HAVE NOT BEEN A MOMENT UP THERE OF PERSONAL ATTACKS OR INSULTS.
SO IT'S BEEN REALLY GREAT AND WE'RE MAKING GOOD PROGRESS, AND I THINK WE'RE ON TRACK TO DELIVER WHAT YOU NEED AND WHAT THE CITY COUNCIL NEEDS TO GO FORWARD WITH A NEW ORDINANCE TO, UH, TALK ABOUT THIS.
SO I WANT TO GET JEFF BACK UP HERE TO DRILL DOWN, BUT THE, WE HAVE THREE MAIN FINDINGS AT THIS POINT.
AND WHEN I SAY FINDINGS, SOME, A COUPLE OF THEM ACTUALLY WERE UNANIMOUS.
BUT THE FACT THAT ONE MIGHT NOT BE UNANIMOUS DOESN'T MEAN THERE WASN'T STRONG CONSENSUS.
AND SOMETIMES CONSENSUS AND UNANIMITY ARE CONFUSED AS BEING THE SAME DESCRIPTIVE PHRASE, AND THEY'RE NOT.
SO, FIRST OF ALL, STR DO AFFECT QUALITY OF LIFE IN PLANO, AND THIS EFFECT IS MOSTLY NEGATIVE.
THAT DOES NOT MEAN THAT EVERY SHORT TERM RENTAL IS A NEGATIVE THING FOR OUR CITY.
UH, THERE ARE HUNDREDS OF SHORT-TERM RENTALS IN OUR CITY THAT ARE BEING RENTED OUT THOUSAND NIGHTS A YEAR.
AND THE VAST MAJORITY, THESE OCCUR WITHOUT INCIDENT.
AND IF YOU LIVED WITHIN TWO OR THREE HOUSES OF IT, YOU WOULDN'T KNOW ABOUT IT.
BUT THERE ARE INCIDENTS AND SOME OF THOSE INCIDENTS GO TO PROPERTY STANDARDS.
SOME OF THOSE END UP WITH THE POLICE DEPARTMENT, BUT THERE ARE OTHER INCIDENTS THAT DON'T MAKE EITHER ONE OF THOSE, AND PEOPLE JUST ARE, ARE LIVING WITH IT.
SO WHILE THEY'RE NOT ALL NEGATIVE, THE IMPACT FROM MOST PEOPLE WHO FEEL AN IMPACT FROM SHORT TERM RENTALS WOULD SAY THAT IMPACT IS NEGATIVE.
AND SO THAT'S FINDING, NUMBER ONE, ESTABLISH THAT AS A BASELINE.
NUMBER TWO, THERE COULD BE APPROPRIATE PLACE FOR SHORT-TERM RENTALS IN PLANO UNDER CIRCUMSTANCES.
AND WE DON'T KNOW WHETHER THAT'S A ZONING CLASSIFICATION TO ALREADY EXIST, SOMETHING NEW TO BE CREATED,
[00:20:01]
WE DON'T KNOW.BUT IT'S POSSIBLE, EVEN THOSE THAT ARE MOST STRONGLY OPPOSED TO SHORT-TERM RENTALS IN THEORY, SAY MAYBE THERE'S A PLACE, THERE COULD BE A PLACE.
SO THERE'S WORK TO BE DONE ON THAT ISSUE.
THERE WAS SURPRISING, UH, SUPPORT FOR THAT SURPRISING BECAUSE IF WE HAD TAKEN A VOTE THE FIRST NIGHT, WE GATHERED AS A GROUP AND SAID, HOW MANY OF YOU WOULD LIKE TO BAN SHORT-TERM RENTALS ALTOGETHER? I THINK IT WOULD'VE PASSED, NOT UNANIMOUSLY, BUT IT WOULD'VE PASSED.
SO I THINK THERE'S BEEN SIGNIFICANT MOVEMENT AMONGST THE COMM, THE COMMITTEE TOWARDS SAYING, YOU KNOW, MAYBE, MAYBE THERE'S A PLACE WHERE THIS WOULD MAKE MORE SENSE.
AND THEN FINALLY, THE CITY SHOULD DEVELOP COMPREHENSIVE PERMANENT REGULATIONS TO GOVERN SHORT-TERM RENTALS IN PLANO.
THOSE THAT OWN OR OPERATE MANAGE SHORT-TERM RENTALS AGREE, THERE SHOULD BE REGULATORY OVERSIGHT.
AND EVEN THOSE THAT ARE MOST OPPOSED TO 'EM SAY, YES, THERE SHOULD BE REGULATIONS.
SO THOSE ARE THE THREE CORE LEGS OF THE TRIPOD, IF YOU WILL, FROM WHICH WE WILL GOING FORWARD IN TAKING THE NEXT STEPS.
AND, UH, AGAIN, WE DON'T WANNA TAKE TOO MUCH TIME TONIGHT, BUT FOR A LITTLE FURTHER DRILL DOWN ON THOSE THREE KEY FINDINGS, I'D LIKE TO CALL JEFF BACK UP HERE, UNLESS YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR ME AT THIS MOMENT.
UH, NO QUESTIONS AT THE MOMENT, BUT MAYOR DYER, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR STEPPING UP AND LEADING THE COMMITTEE.
WELL, IT'S MY HONOR, THANK YOU.
WELL, OUR, OUR JOB IS A LOT EASIER WITH SOMEBODY LIKE MAYOR DYER, UH, RUNNING, RUNNING IT, AS YOU CAN IMAGINE.
HE ASKED ME TO DRILL DOWN AND WE'LL, WE'LL TAKE YOU THROUGH SOME OF THESE, UH, JUST VERY QUICKLY.
I KNOW YOU'VE GOT A LONG AGENDA TONIGHT, BUT AS YOU LOOK AT FINDINGS ONE AND THREE, UM, WE SAW SOME SIMILARITY BETWEEN THOSE.
THEY REALLY SPEAK TO REGULATION, EITHER THE NEED FOR REGULATION OR POTENTIAL REGULATION, AND THERE WERE SOME CRITICAL ISSUES THAT THE TASK FORCE AGREED GROW OUT OF THOSE TWO FINDINGS, UM, IN CONSIDER OWNERS, USERS AND GUESTS CURRENTLY TAKE ADVANTAGE OF A LACK OF REGULATION, LACK OF STRONG MANAGEMENT, AND ONSITE MANAGEMENT CAN MAKE NEIGHBOR TO NEIGHBOR DISCUSSIONS CHALLENGING FOR MANY PEOPLE IN THE COMMUNITY EFFECT ON NEIGHBORHOOD CHARACTER.
UH, A NUMBER OF PEOPLE CONCERNED ABOUT UNKNOWN PEOPLE COMING IN AND OUTTA THEIR NEIGHBORHOODS.
AND FREQUENT, FREQUENT, UH, TURNOVER, UH, UNSAFE CONDITIONS AND OR OVERCROWDING THEIR PROPERTY AND OBNOXIOUS USES LATE NIGHT PARTIES, THAT SORT OF THING.
INCIDENCES OF UNSAFE FIREARMS WHILE RELATIVELY RARE, UH, OTHER FELONIES CONTRIBUTE TO A BROADER CONCERNS ABOUT FEARS FOR SAFETY AND IN CHARACTER.
AND I DO WANNA EMPHASIZE, WE HEAR FROM YOUR POLICE CHIEF, THOSE, THOSE KINDS OF SERIOUS INSTANCES ARE INDEED RARE, BUT DO POSE A PROBLEM FOR THE PEOPLE WHO LIVE NEARBY AND POSE A PERCEPTION PROBLEM, BOTH, UH, LACK OF REGISTRATION, PROGRAM LIMITS ENFORCEMENT.
I THINK THAT WAS SOMETHING THAT WAS A KEY FINDING FOR THE COMMITTEE, THAT THERE DOES NEED TO BE SOME KIND OF REGULATION AND, UH, REGISTRATION THAT WOULD BE USEFUL.
THE COMMUNITY FABRIC IS A CORE VALUE FOR THE CITY OF PLANO.
AND ALSO THAT THERE'S A BROAD CONCERN THAT STR IN SINGLE FAMILY NEIGHBORHOODS ARE DIFFICULT TO RECONCILE WITH THAT CORE VALUE OF, UH, COMMUNITY FABRIC.
NOW THAT'S NOT SOMETHING EVERYBODY, I THINK, ON THE TASK FORCE SEES, BUT EVERYBODY COULD SEE THAT THERE ARE SOME CHALLENGES, PARTICULARLY IN THE UNREGULATED ENVIRONMENT.
UM, AND THEN, UH, JUST TO BE CLEAR, UH, YOU HEARD CHART DIRE MENTIONED.
IT, THERE WAS A LOT OF DISCUSSION IN THE TASK FORCE ABOUT THIS IDEA OF MOSTLY NEGATIVE, THE EFFECT BEING MOSTLY NEGATIVE.
AND, UH, US AFTER A LOT OF DISCUSSION, I THINK A CLEAR MAJORITY, A SUPER MAJORITY OF THE TASK FORCE FELT THAT THE OVERALL EFFECT IS IN FACT, QUOTE UNQUOTE, MOSTLY NEGATIVE.
EVEN SOME OF THE PEOPLE WHO SIGNED OFF ON THAT SEE ADVANTAGES OR DON'T THINK THAT IT IS WHOLLY NEGATIVE, BUT AGAIN, MOSTLY NEGATIVE.
AND THEN TO BE FAIR, WE HAD SOME TASK FORCE MEMBERS WHO, UH, YOU KNOW, FELT STRONGLY THAT THAT WAS A STEP TOO FAR.
THAT WHILE THERE WERE NEGATIVE IMPACTS OF STR, THAT IT WAS UNFAIR TO DESCRIBE THEM AS MOSTLY NEGATIVE.
UH, THERE ARE ALSO SOME CONSIDERATIONS THAT FLOW FROM THIS FINDING.
NUMBER TWO, THAT THERE COULD BE, AGAIN, COULD BE APPROPRIATE PLACES OR CIRCUMSTANCES FOR, UH, ST FINDING.
[00:25:01]
UH, THE STRONGEST CONCERNS AND PROBLEMS VOICED IN THE TASK FORCE AND THE DATA THAT WE'VE SEEN AND MEETINGS OF OPEN HOUSE ARE FOCUSED ON RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOODS, PARTICULARLY SINGLE FAMILY NEIGHBORHOODS.AND THE CONFLICTS WITH SHORT-TERM RENTALS THERE THAT A SMALL NUMBER OF SHORT-TERM RENTALS APPEAR TO BE RESPONSIBLE FOR, UH, A DISPROPORTIONATE NUMBER OF COMPLAINTS.
AND THAT SEEMS TO BE, UH, VALIDATED THROUGH YOUR, YOUR POLICE DEPARTMENT AND THEIR, UH, RECORDS THAT RESPONSIBLE LOCAL OWNERS AND OPERATORS ACTUALLY SUPPORT REGULATION AT THIS POINT.
AND THAT SOME LOCAL FAMILIES AND BUSINESSES, UH, DERIVE SIGNIFICANT INCOME FROM SDRS AND SDRS PROVIDE OPTIONS FOR LODGING THAT SOME VISITORS AND LOCAL RESIDENTS FIND USEFUL FOR TOURISM, HOSTING FAMILY AND FRIENDS.
AND, AND THERE WAS, UH, AT THE MEETING, UNANIMOUS AGREEMENT ON THOSE FINDINGS, UH, FOR FINDING TWO OR THOSE, THOSE, UH, CONSIDERATIONS THAT GREW OUT OF FINDING NUMBER TWO, UH, FINALLY, THAT THERE IS SOME HOT TAX AND REVENUE THAT, UH, THAT GROWS OUT FROM, UH, SDRS AND THAT SOME PLANO RESIDENCY REGULATIONS, ESPECIALLY B WITHOUT EXCEPTION AS INFRINGEMENTS ON PROPERTY RIGHTS OR, OR PERSONAL LIBERTIES.
SO THAT'S REALLY WHERE THE TASK FORCE IS AT THIS POINT.
I THINK DONE SOME, SOME REALLY GOOD WORK ABOUT IDENTIFYING SOME OF THE SPECIFICS OF THE PROBLEMS THAT FACE THE CITY, SOME CORE FINDINGS THAT WILL LEAD INTO THIS NEXT PHASE WHERE THE TASK FORCE WILL BE LOOKING FOR SOLUTIONS.
TO BE CLEAR, ONCE AGAIN, THE TASK FORCE ISN'T CHARGED WITH DRAFTING ORDINANCES, LEGISLATION, ZONING MAPS, BUT WITH HELPING, UH, DIRECT GUIDE STAFF IN A GENERAL WAY AND COME TO SOME GENERAL CONSENSUS ABOUT DIRECTION FOR THE COMMUNITY THAT THEY CAN RECOMMEND TO STAFF.
THAT WILL BE TURNED IN TO, UH, MORE DETAILED RECOMMENDATIONS THAT YOU ALL AND THE CITY COUNCIL CAN REVIEW.
THE NEXT MEETING WILL BE NOVEMBER 15TH.
THERE'LL BE ANOTHER MEETING, UH, RIGHT AFTER THE HOLIDAYS IN JANUARY.
THEN ANOTHER OPEN HOUSE TO LET CITIZENS GET ANOTHER CRACK AT SOME COMMENT, ESPECIALLY TO SEE THE DIRECTION THE TASK FORCE IS MOVING IN TERMS OF SOLUTIONS.
AND, UH, THEN A WHAT IS NOW SCHEDULED TO BE A FINAL MEETING, UH, IN MID TO LATE MARCH, GIVING AGAIN, TIME TO COME BACK TO YOU BEFORE THE, UM, INTERIM BAN EXPIRES.
I, I HOPE THAT JUST GIVES YOU A SENSE OUT OF, UH, YOU KNOW, SOME NUANCED AND PRETTY VIGOROUS DISCUSSION THAT'S GONE ON.
UH, IT, IT SEEMS US AS YOUR FACILITATORS THAT IT'S BEEN A VERY POSITIVE EXPERIENCE, AND I KNOW THERE'S SOME PEOPLE WHO STILL HAVE A LOT OF CONCERNS ABOUT WHAT THAT END PRODUCT WILL BE AND ABOUT SOME OF THE FINER POINTS.
BUT WE HAVE REACHED, AS THE CHAIR SAID, UM, SOME CONSENSUS ON KEY FINDINGS.
MR. CHAIR, I'D BE GLAD TO ANSWER QUESTIONS IF THERE ARE ANY, OR YIELD BACK TO.
THANK YOU, UH, COMMISSIONER TO, UM, FIRST OF ALL, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THE HARD WORK AND THE, UM, I GUESS LONG DRAWN PRACTICE OF ALL THIS SURVEY AND GETTING THE REPORTS TO US.
UM, I HAVE A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS, AND MY UNDERSTANDING IS YOUR GROUP IS RESPONSIBLE FOR GETTING THE, FOR THE OUTREACH EFFORT AND COLLECTING THE RESPONSES TO THIS PARTICULAR ISSUE.
SO, UH, ONE QUESTION IS REGARDING THE POPULATION AND THE NUMBER OF, OF, UH, RESPONSES.
I WAS A LITTLE, UM, SURPRISED TO SEE THE, I THINK IT'S LOW RESPONSES.
UH, I, I READ A COUPLE OF NUMBERS.
FIRST IS THE OVERALL RESPONSES WAS LIKE A 6,000 OR SOMETHING, AND THE OPEN HOUSES HAD ONLY A TOTAL OF A LITTLE OVER 2000, UH, COUNTS.
UM, I'M THINKING THE POPULATION IN PLANO IS ABOUT 288,000, AND THAT'S A, UM, LESS THAN 2%, ABOUT 2%, UM, RESPONSES IN LESS THAN 1% PARTICIPATION OF THE OPEN HOUSE.
DO YOU SEE, UH, ANY REASONS WHY WITH THE LOW PARTICIPATION? BECAUSE I THINK THAT'S A, THAT THIS IS A BIG ISSUE TO THE CITY.
I MEAN IT, IF WE PUT ANY REGULATIONS TO IT, IF WE PUT ANY ORDINANCE TOWARDS THIS SHORT TERM RENTAL, IT, IT'S A HUGE DEAL TO ME, BUT I, I'M, I WAS REALLY SURPRISED TO SEE THE LOW NUMBERS OF PARTICIPATION.
IS THERE ANY REASON YOU CAN SEE WHY COMMISSIONER, I, I THINK THE FIRST THING I'D SAY IS THAT WHILE THAT SEEMS LOW, WHEN YOU THINK OF A CITY OF 300,000, THAT IF YOU LOOK AT THAT IN TERMS OF SURVEY RESULTS, THAT IT'S ACTUALLY VERY GOOD.
IF YOU LOOK AT WHAT OTHER CITIES GET, WHAT YOU'VE GOTTEN ON OTHER SURVEYS HERE IN THIS COMMUNITY, THAT'S A REALLY STRONG RESPONSE.
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THINK YOU AND I BOTH WISH THAT MORE PEOPLE FOUND GOVERNMENT AS INTERESTING AS IT SHOULD BEBUT IN TRUTH, UH, THAT'S A STRONG RESPONSE.
AND WHAT I WOULD SAY TO YOU ABOUT THAT RESPONSE, UH, THIS IS AN OPT-IN SURVEY, THAT'S ONE THING TO REMEMBER.
SO THIS IS NOT A SCIENTIFIC RANDOM SURVEY, WHICH, WHICH WHERE YOU WOULD TAKE EVERY HUNDREDTH NAME OUT OF THE PHONE LISTINGS AND CALL, YOU KNOW, CALL THOSE, AND YOU, YOU'D GET WHAT'S CALLED A RANDOM SAMPLE.
YOU HAD TO BE MOTIVATED TO WANT TO COME OUT AND DO IT MOTIVATED THE SENSE OF YOU'RE, YOU'RE INVITED TO, BUT, UM, WE DIDN'T CALL YOU ON THE PHONE, FOR EXAMPLE.
SO, UH, WITHOUT GETTING TOO MUCH IN THE WEEDS THERE, UH, THAT'S, THAT'S A STRONG, IF YOU WERE USING A RANDOM SURVEY, THIS WOULD BE A REALLY, REALLY STRONG RESPONSE FOR THIS OPT-IN SURVEY.
IT GIVES YOU, UH, ASSISTANCE WHAT MOST PEOPLE WOULD CONSIDER STATISTICALLY VALID NUMBER OF RESPONDENTS TO LOOK NOT ONLY AT THE BIG PICTURE, BUT AT SOME OF THE SLICES IN BETWEEN.
LIKE, WELL, WHAT DO OLDER RESIDENTS THINK? WHAT DO RESIDENTS IN CERTAIN AREAS THINK? UM, I WOULD CAUTION YOU, WE, WE WOULDN'T SAY THAT THESE ARE PRECISE.
I KNOW THAT SOME OF YOU'RE FAMILIAR WITH POLLING ON THIS, THIS DAIS, THIS, THIS, WE, WE WOULDN'T SAY THIS IS A TWO OR THREE POINT SPREAD.
THIS IS A GENERAL DIRECTION BECAUSE OF THE TYPE OF SURVEY THAT IT IS.
BUT IT GIVES YOU A, A REALLY GOOD INDICATOR OF WHERE PEOPLE ARE.
AND AS YOU SAW IN THIS, UH, MANY OF THOSE QUESTIONS WERE ANSWERED, UH, PRETTY OVERWHELMINGLY, 60, 70%.
UH, AND I THINK THAT GIVES YOU A STRONG, STATISTICALLY VALID SENSE OF WHERE YOUR COMMUNITY IS.
UM, BUT YOU KNOW, HAVING SAID THAT, I IF THOSE QUESTIONS THAT WERE 50 49, YOU SHOULDN'T RELY ON A SURVEY LIKE THIS TO CONSIDER THOSE DETERMINATIVE.
IS, UH, ONE OF THE POINTS THAT FOUNDINGS FINDINGS 1, 2, 3, UM, IN FINDING TWO, YOU MENTIONED THAT, UH, ONE OF THE POSITIVE, UH, VALUES OF THE SHORT-TERM RENTAL IS TO BE, PEOPLE FIND IT TO BE USEFUL.
THE WORD I THINK I FOUND IN THE REPORT SOUNDS USEFUL FOR HOSTING FAMILIES OR FRIENDS OUTTA TOWN.
UM, BUT DID WE ACTUALLY HAVE, I DON'T KNOW, MAYBE THAT'S A QUESTION TO THE, TO THE OTHER GROUP.
DO WE DO ANY STUDY ABOUT THE ACTUAL NEEDS? I MEAN, USEFUL IS ONE THING, BUT DO WE ACTUALLY HAVE THE NEED FOR ACTUAL LODGING, UM, IN PLANO? BECAUSE WE, I BELIEVE WE DO HAVE HOTELS AND, AND OTHER TYPE OF, UH, UH, LODGING FOR VISITORS AND FRIENDS.
IS THERE ANY STUDY AROUND THAT? WE DID NOT.
YOUR, YOUR ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT, UH, FOLKS MAY HAVE THAT OR YOUR HOTELIERS.
OUR, OUR TASK FORCE DID NOT ADDRESS NEED PER SE.
BUT THERE WAS A LOT OF COMMENT FROM, UM, CITIZENS BOTH AT THE OPEN HOUSE AND FROM MEMBERS OF THE TASK FORCE WHO GAVE ANECDOTAL EVIDENCE OF PEOPLE COMING TO STAY WITH LARGER FAMILIES THAT DON'T WORK WELL IN A HOTEL BECAUSE THEY WANNA LIVING ROOM OR SOMEPLACE TO GET TOGETHER.
I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT A PARTY OF 200 MM-HMM.
RIGHT? SO THERE WERE SOME EXAMPLES PRESENTED, UM, IN THE TASK FORCE AND IN COMMENTS THAT WE GOT BACK ABOUT THAT SORT OF THING OF PEOPLE, LOCAL RESIDENTS WHO ARE HAVING SOMEBODY GET MARRIED OR BAR MITZVAH OR WHATEVER IT IS, AND WANTED SOMEPLACE THAT PEOPLE COULD STAY AND GATHER.
COMMISSIONER KERRY? UM, MICROPHONE, FIRST OF ALL, I ECHO, UH, COMMISSIONER TONG'S, UH, COMMENTS ON THE, ON THE SURVEY AND, UM, SEEMS VERY WELL DONE AND COMPLETE.
AND, YOU KNOW, I, I WENT THROUGH IT OVER THE LAST FEW DAYS AND THERE'S A LOT OF GREAT DATA IN THERE.
UM, A COUPLE QUESTIONS FOR YOU.
HAVE YOU FOLKS DONE THIS TYPE OF, UM, EFFORT WITH OTHER COMMUNITIES IN TERMS OF ST COMMUNITIES THAT ARE SIMILAR TO OURS? AND IF SO, ARE THE RESULTS SIMILAR OR DIFFERENT IN ANY SIGNIFICANT WAY? WE'VE DONE A LOT.
UH, THIS IS THE ONLY TASK FORCE THAT WE'VE DONE THAT'S FOCUSED ONLY ON STR WITHOUT REGULATIONS IN PLACE.
WE'VE DONE A LOT OF COMPREHENSIVE PLANS OR STUDIES WHERE STRS FIGURED IN AS ONE COMPONENT, AND WE'VE BEEN TALKING TO PEOPLE FROM AROUND, AND SOME MEMBERS OF OUR TEAM HAVE DONE IT IN THE AUSTIN AREA.
WE'VE ALSO BEEN TALKING TO PEOPLE IN GEORGIA AND ELSEWHERE ABOUT WHAT THEY'RE GOING THROUGH.
UM, I, I THINK YOU'VE HEARD FROM YOUR PLANNING STAFF, IT IS REALLY ALL OVER THE PLACE IN THE COUNTRY RIGHT NOW.
UH, YOU KNOW, PLACES LIKE NEW YORK HAVE GOTTEN A LOT OF PUBLICITY FOR MAKING IT HARDER.
THEY, THEY ACTUALLY TOOK A LONG TIME TO GET THAT ORDINANCE ON THE BOOKS AND TO GET IT RIGHT.
IT WAS A, IT WAS AN EXHAUSTIVE PROCESS THERE.
UM, IN TEXAS, UH, I MEAN, YOUR, YOUR, YOUR CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE HAS DONE A GREAT JOB ABOUT TALKING TO TASK FORCE ABOUT
[00:35:01]
SOME OF THE CHALLENGES IN TEXAS, UH, AND IN THE DIFFERENT, UH, COURT SYSTEMS THAT ARE GOING ON.SO, I, I, UH, IN, IN PLANNING CIRCLES AND CONFERENCES WE GO TO, IT IS A BIG TOPIC ALL OVER THE COUNTRY RIGHT NOW IN CITIES THAT WE WORK WITH.
THAT'S A LOT OF CITIES AROUND THE STATE.
I CAN'T TELL YOU OF ANYBODY THAT I THINK HAS THE MAGIC BULLET YET.
UH, BUT THERE, THERE ARE LOTS OF DIFFERENT APPROACHES OUT THERE.
AND I THINK IT VARIES WHETHER YOU CONSIDER YOURSELF A TOURISM TOWN OR NOT.
THERE ARE A LOT OF CONSIDERATIONS THERE.
UM, THERE IS SIGNIFICANT CONCERN ON THE EFFECT OF STR ON PROPERTY VALUES.
AND SO WITH YOUR EXPERIENCE IS, IS THERE ANY EVIDENCE OUT THERE OF, OF WHAT THESE ACTUALLY DO TO PROPERTY VALUES? I MEAN, I, I UNDERSTAND THE CONCERN, BUT WHAT DO WE KNOW FROM A DATA PERSPECTIVE ABOUT IT? I WOULD HESITATE TO GIVE ANY STATEWIDE DATA, AND I DON'T THINK WE HAVE REALLY STRONG DATA.
WE HAVE, WE HAVE LOOKED AT DATA, MAYBE SOMEBODY ON STAFF WANTS TO ADDRESS THAT MORE FULLY.
BUT I WILL SAY WE HAVE LOOKED AT IT, UH, IN SOME COMMUNITIES AND TO, TO A LIMITED EXTENT.
I THINK ANECDOTALLY, THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO FEEL LIKE STR DRIVE DOWN THEIR PROPERTY VALUES.
AND I, I'M WILLING TO BELIEVE THAT, UH, WE HAD SOME PEOPLE IN THE TASK FORCE WHO SAID THAT THEY, THAT THEY HAD HAD CONVERSATIONS WITH CENTRAL APPRAISAL DISTRICT AND THAT THEY FELT LIKE THEY, THAT WAS GONNA DRIVE DOWN THEIR PROPERTY VALUES.
UM, WE'VE SEEN IN OTHER COMMUNITIES WHERE IT CAN DRIVE UP PROPERTY VALUES BECAUSE IF YOU'RE TRYING TO REFINANCE YOUR HOME, YOU ACTUALLY HAVE AN INCOME SOURCE ON THAT HOME.
SO IF YOU, IF YOU'RE DOING AN INCOME-BASED APPRAISAL ON A PROPERTY, THEN ALL OF A SUDDEN THAT CAN ACTUALLY INCREASE THE APPRAISAL VALUE OF THE PROPERTY.
YEAH, OBVIOUSLY, I THINK IT WOULD'VE DEPEND ON WHAT COMMUNITY YOU'RE IN AND WHAT USES THERE A LOT OF THINGS.
MY, MY FINAL THING IS, IS, UM, KIND OF A COMMENT AND THEN A QUESTION.
I MEAN, OBVIOUSLY WE WANNA GET THIS RIGHT.
I THINK WE'RE DOING AN EXHAUSTIVE APPROACH TO IT, BRINGING IN ALL DIFFERENT STAKEHOLDERS, AND I THINK THAT'S IMPORTANT TO GET THIS RIGHT.
UM, AS I LOOK AT THE SCHEDULE, I, I JUST WANNA REGISTER A BIT OF A CONCERN AND, AND, AND I KNOW THE CITIZENS OF PLAINTIFF WOULD LIKE THIS DONE SOONER RATHER THAN LATER, BUT OBVIOUSLY WE ALL WANT TO GET IT RIGHT.
WITH THAT SAID, UM, SITTING ON THIS DAIS, I HAVE A BIT OF A CONCERN WITH A MARCH, LATE MARCH, UM, PRESENTATION, AND THEN, UH, MAY 15TH, I THINK IT IS EXPIRATION OF THE BAN.
AND MY CONCERN, IT'S NOT A QUESTION, IT'S JUST A CONCERN, IS THAT WILL IT GIVE US ENOUGH TIME TO DO WHAT WE NEED TO DO UP HERE AND THEN WITH CITY COUNCIL AND IF, IF WE STICK TO THOSE DATES.
THANK YOU, COMMISSIONER OLLIE.
UH, THANK YOU FOR YOUR GOOD WORK.
UH, I WAS ACTUALLY SURPRISED YOU GOT 109 PEOPLE ON A WEDNESDAY NIGHT IN AUGUST IN THE HEAT, UH, THAT IN THE TWO HOUR TIME PERIOD.
UM, JUST WANNA GROUND MYSELF IN THE MAKEUP OF THE TASK FORCE, WE HAD 19 MEMBERS, THREE ALTERNATES.
UM, IF YOU COULD ROUGHLY SPLIT PRO, S D R, NON S D R, HALF AND HALF, 10 AND NINE, UH, COMMISSIONER, I WOULD ANSWER THAT TWO DIFFERENT WAYS.
I THINK THERE WOULD, THERE, UH, SOME OF THE VOTES WERE, UH, ON THE FINAL DAY.
THERE WERE 16 MEMBERS AT THE, AT THE LAST MEETING AND THE VOTES, UH, WHERE, WHERE THERE WAS SOME CONTENTION, VOTES WERE 13 TO THREE ON, ON THE LINE THAT YOU MIGHT CALL, UH, FOLKS WHO HAD LESS SYMPATHY FOR STR IN NEIGHBORHOODS AND FOLKS WHO HAD MORE SYMPATHY FOR ST BEING THE THREE.
UM, I THINK THERE'S, UH, GENERALLY SPEAKING, SOME OF THE FOLKS, UH, WHO ARE, WHO ARE PRO SDR R FEEL LIKE A LOT OF FOLKS CAME IN, UH, WITH, YOU KNOW, PROBABLY SKEPTICAL AT LEAST OF SDRS.
I THINK WE'VE HAD SOME GREAT CONVERSATION WHERE PEOPLE HAVE REALLY RECOGNIZED EACH OTHER AS, YOU KNOW, HUMAN BEINGS INSTEAD OF JUST CATEGORIES.
IT'S BEEN A BIG STEP, BUT I WOULD SAY THAT GENERALLY SPEAKING, UH, AS WE'VE HEARD DATA, AS WE'VE, AS WE'VE BEGUN TO MAKE DECISIONS THAT THERE'S A, A MAJORITY AND A STRONG MAJORITY THAT, YOU KNOW, HAVE SOME CONCERNS ABOUT SDR IN, ESPECIALLY IN RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOODS.
UH, SO TO THAT POINT, ACTUALLY.
CAN YOU SPEAK MORE ON THAT ISSUE? AGE, ON THAT CONCERN AROUND SDRS? WHAT IMPUNING THE VALUE OF THE COMMUNITY FABRIC, WHAT'S, CAN YOU GIVE US A LITTLE BIT MORE BUDDY TO THAT ISSUE? I CAN, THERE WAS A FAIR AMOUNT OF DISCUSSION AROUND THAT AND, UH, THERE'S NOT UNANIMITY AROUND THAT QUESTION, UH, WITHIN THE TASK FORCE, BUT I THINK THERE WAS A, A SIGNIFICANT MAJORITY WHO FELT LIKE, UM, THE, THE CHALLENGES POSED BY SDRS DID IN GENERAL HAVE A NEGATIVE EFFECT ON, UH, WHAT
[00:40:01]
WAS DESCRIBED AS COMMUNITY FABRIC.AND THAT MIGHT BE, UH, TRASH, IT MIGHT BE NOISE, IT MIGHT BE INTERRUPTIONS LATER AT NIGHT.
THERE WAS ALSO A SENSE FROM A NUMBER OF TASK FORCE MEMBERS THAT, UM, YOU SHOULD, THAT IT WAS DIFFICULT TO KNOW YOUR NEIGHBORS IF THEY WERE CHANGING OUT THROUGH VACANCIES OR THROUGH, UH, TURNOVER IN AN S T R.
AND AGAIN, I THINK THERE WERE OTHER FOLKS WHO POINTED OUT THAT, WELL, IN ANY NEIGHBORHOOD YOU MIGHT HAVE TURNOVER, YOU MIGHT NOT KNOW YOUR NEIGHBORS.
BUT THERE WERE A SIGNIFICANT NUMBER OF FOLKS WHO FELT LIKE THAT, UH, CONSTANT TURNOVER, UH, LIMITED THE ABILITY TO REALLY BUILD COMMUNITY FABRIC.
DOES THAT ADDRESS YOUR QUESTION? YEAH, IT DOES.
UM, FIRST OF ALL, I HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO ATTEND THE OPEN HOUSE.
IT WAS VERY WELL ATTENDED TO THE POINT OF ALMOST TOO CROWDED TO MOVE AROUND WHEN I WAS THERE, SO THANK YOU FOR THAT.
IT WAS, UM, UH, I WAS PLEASANTLY SURPRISED AT HOW MANY PEOPLE TURNED OUT FOR IT.
UM, BACK TO YOUR QUESTION, KIND OF ON POLLING, I'D BE CURIOUS TO SEE SOME OF THE CROSS TABS IN YOUR DATA.
YOU GAVE US SOME GOOD TOP LINE INFORMATION, DEMOGRAPHICS, GEOGRAPHIC DISPERSION, UM, BUT I THINK IT'D BE INTERESTING TO SEE IF THERE'S A VARIATION IN, UM, SUPPORT OR OPPOSITION IN DIFFERENT PARTS OF TOWN.
AND, UH, YOU GAVE US SOME DEMOGRAPHIC, UM, SUPPORT IN THE YOUNGER POPULATION, BUT I DIDN'T KNOW IF THERE WAS A GEOGRAPHIC DIFFERENCE, UM, OR IF THAT WAS, IF Y'ALL LOOK EVEN LOOKED AT THAT.
UM, AND I, I'M NOT ASKING NECESSARILY FOR THAT ANSWER TONIGHT, BUT I'D BE CURIOUS JUST TO HAVE A FOLLOW UP OR MAYBE FOR THE NEXT PRESENTATION TO LOOK AT SOME OF THAT KIND OF A HEAT MAP TYPE OF PRESENTATION.
WE'D BE GLAD TO SHARE SOME CROSS TABS.
THERE WERE A COUPLE OF FINDINGS THAT I'LL JUST HIGHLIGHT.
ONE IS THAT, UH, YOUNGER PLANO RESIDENTS TEND TO HAVE A MORE FAVORABLE VIEW OF STR AND, UH, THAN THAN OLDER PLANO RESIDENTS AND SEE THEM AS LESS OF A PROBLEM THAN OLDER PLANO RESIDENTS.
AND THEN, UH, THE SECOND THING IS THAT FROM, FROM WHAT WE COULD SEE IN THE CROSS TABS, KARA'S GONNA CORRECT ME 'CAUSE SHE GOT INTO THAT PART OF THE CROSS TAB, BUT WE DID NOT SEE MUCH DIFFERENCE GEOGRAPHICALLY ACROSS THE CITY.
AND WE, WE THOUGHT WE MIGHT SEE SOME, BUT WE REALLY DID NOT SEE MUCH DIFFERENCE, UH, YOU KNOW, EAST, EAST, WEST, NORTH, SOUTH.
THAT, THAT FRANKLY SURPRISES ME.
I WOULD THINK IN THE MORE, UM, URBANIZED WALKABLE AREAS, IT MIGHT BE A DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVE THAN IN, YOU KNOW, KEEP IN MIND TRADITIONAL NEIGHBORHOODS, IT'S HARD TO GET DOWN TO THAT.
LIKE IF YOU WERE REALLY TO TAKE OUT, UM, THE HISTORIC DOWNTOWN, I WOULD ALSO EXPECT THERE MIGHT BE SOME DIFFERENCE THERE.
SO THESE WERE BROADER GEOGRAPHIC AREAS, BUT WE DID NOT SEE MUCH BASED ON THAT.
I, I APPRECIATE Y'ALL'S RESULTS, VERY THOROUGH SO FAR.
UM, LET ME ADD MY THANKS TO THOSE OF MY COLLEAGUES HERE FOR YOUR, UM, HARD WORK AND DILIGENCE IN PUTTING THIS TOGETHER.
AND I HOPE YOU, UH, CONTINUE TO FOLLOW, YOU KNOW, THE, THE DILIGENCE PATH.
YOU GET ALL THE DUCKS LINED UP, GET ALL YOUR DATA IN A ROW SO THAT WHATEVER CONCLUSIONS YOU DRAW AT THE END ARE ARE WELL SUPPORTED, WHICH I THINK IS IMPORTANT.
UM, I HAVE A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS.
ONE IS, AS PART OF YOUR STUDY, DID YOU REACH OUT TO PEOPLE LIKE AIRBNB AND OTHER, UH, MAJOR PLATFORMS IN THE S UH, SHORT TERM RENTAL INDUSTRY FOR THEIR INPUT? UH, NOT ONLY TO ASK, YOU KNOW, TO GET THEIR INPUT AS TO WHAT THEY SEE AS THE STATE OF THINGS, WHETHER REGULATION IS NEEDED, BUT ALSO TO FIND OUT WHAT THEY HAVE BEEN DOING AND WHAT MORE, IF ANYTHING, THEY COULD BE DOING TO EXERCISE OVERSIGHT OVER THEIR SHORT-TERM RENTAL CLIENTS, UH, TO, UH, PREVENT ABUSES, UM, TO REGULATE, UH, THE INDUSTRY.
UH, I KNOW THAT, OR GO AHEAD, CHRISTINA.
I CAN JUST ASK ENTER IN GENERAL ABOUT, UM, OUTREACH WITH THE PLATFORMS. UM, WE DID REACH OUT TO A COUPLE OF THE MAJOR PLATFORMS TO INVITE THEM TO APPLY TO PARTICIPATE IN THE TASK FORCE.
UM, AND INITIALLY, UM, I THINK SOME SAID YES, BUT THEN DIDN'T SUBMIT THE APPLICATION.
UM, AND I DON'T KNOW IF WE HEARD BACK FROM ALL OF THEM, UM, BUT THERE ARE A COUPLE OF MEMBERS OF THE TASK FORCE THAT REPRESENT, UH, WORK WITH LOCAL PROPERTY MANAGEMENT AND SHORT-TERM RENTAL OPERATING, UM, KIND OF GROUPS.
SO THERE'S SOME LOCAL PLATFORM, BUT NOT, NOT THE BIG PLATFORMS. OKAY.
WELL, SO WE, WE DID HEAR FROM SOME LOCAL MEMBERS, SOME, UH, PLANO CITIZENS WHO ARE MEMBERS OF THE TASK FORCE AND WORK IN THE INDUSTRY WHO DESCRIBED BEST PRACTICES AND WHAT THEY DO AND WHAT THEY, WHAT THEY FEEL LIKE RESPONSIBLE OWNERS DO, SUCH AS, UH, SCREENING GUESTS, UM, FOLLOWING UP VERY QUICKLY IF THERE ARE NOISE COMPLAINTS, UH,
[00:45:01]
MONITORING, UH, MONITORING RESIDENCES.WE ALSO HAVE SOME PEOPLE WHO LIVE IN THE S T R, YOU KNOW, YOU LIVE IN THE SHORT TERM RENTALS, THEY'RE RENTING OUT A ROOM.
AND THERE'S BEEN, UH, WE, WE HAVEN'T GOTTEN TO SOLUTIONS, BUT THERE HAS BEEN A GOOD BIT OF DISCUSSION IN THE TASK FORCE ABOUT, YOU KNOW, THERE'S, THERE IS A, I THINK A, A DIFFERENCE IN PERCEPTION IN A LOT OF THE TASK FORCE MEMBERS.
IF YOU'RE RENTING OUT A HOUSE THAT YOU'RE IN, YOU'RE FROM SOMEPLACE FAR AWAY AND DON'T MONITOR IT VERY CLOSELY VERSUS IF YOU'RE RENTING OUT A ROOM OF YOUR OWN HOME TO MAYBE, YOU KNOW, INTERNATIONAL VISITORS WHO'VE COME TO SEE TEXAS.
UM, HAVE ANY OF YOUR PARTICIPANTS OFFERED AS A, AS A SUGGESTION, UH, A REQUIREMENT FOR, IF NOT RESIDENT OWNER REQUIREMENT, WHICH I UNDERSTAND THE COURTS HAVE VIEWED NEGATIVELY, UH, AT LEAST A REQUIREMENT TO APPOINT SOME SORT OF MANAGING AGENT LOCALLY WITH AN EMERGENCY NUMBER THAT COULD BE CONTACTED? UM, I THINK YOU ALL ARE AWARE OF SOME OF THE CHALLENGES, UH, IN THE COMMERCE CLAUSE, BUT, UH, YES, THERE HAS BEEN SOME DISCUSSION OF THAT.
BUT I WILL TELL YOU THAT BASED ON THIS, UH, DILIGENT PROCESS THAT WE HAVE, THAT WE REALLY DISCUSSION, WE DISCOURAGED ANY DEEP CONVERSATION ABOUT THAT BECAUSE IT REALLY FALLS INTO THE NATURE OF SOLUTIONS RATHER THAN IDENTIFYING PROBLEMS. SO THERE WAS SOME DISCUSSION AROUND THE FACT THAT THE LACK OF ONSITE MANAGEMENT MM-HMM.
BUT FOR THE TASK FORCE MEMBERS, WE REALLY ASK THEM TO STAY AWAY FROM SOLUTIONS UNTIL WE REALLY IDENTIFY THE PROBLEMS AND MOVE FORWARD IN THIS, AS YOU'VE SAID, A PURPOSEFULLY DELIBERATIVE MANNER.
BUT AT SOME POINT, YOU WILL REACH THE, THE SOLUTION STAGE OF YOUR, OF YOUR INQUIRY.
NO, I MENTIONED THE RESIDENT MANAGE, THE MANAGING AGENT IDEA AS SORT OF ANALOGOUS TO ALL KINDS OF OUT-OF-STATE CORPORATIONS THAT DO BUSINESS IN THIS STATE AND ARE REQUIRED TO APPOINT REGISTERED AGENTS TO RECEIVE SERVICE OF, UH, OF LEGAL PROCESS, FOR EXAMPLE, THAT THIS IS NOT A DIFFERENT CONCEPT FROM THAT.
UM, MY OTHER QUESTION IS, UM, YOU BROKE DOWN LOCATIONS WHERE THE POLICE HAD RECEIVED CALLS FOR SERVICE BY STREET, AND THERE'S ONE STREET THAT GOT A DISPROPORTIONATE NUMBER OF CALLS, AND THAT'S SANDPIPER LANE.
DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEAS WHY THERE'S SO MANY CALLS GOING TO THAT ONE PARTICULAR STREET? I, I'M GONNA TRY AND, UH, I'M GONNA, I'M GONNA TRY AND DO JUSTICE TO YOUR CHIEF WHO GAVE A GREAT PRESENTATION AND ANSWERED SOME OF THIS DATA.
I DON'T THINK WE KNOW PRECISELY.
I THINK THE CHIEF REFERENCED THAT IN, IN SOME CASES YOU MAY HAVE AN INDIVIDUAL WHO FEELS PARTICULARLY AGGRIEVED.
YOU KNOW, THIS JUST REALLY BOTHERS 'EM.
AND THOSE CALLS MIGHT BE VALID OR THEY MIGHT BE INVALID.
WE DON'T REALLY HAVE THE DATA TO KNOW THAT.
IN OTHER CASES, THERE, THERE DO SEEM TO BE, YOU KNOW, A SMALL NUMBER OF OPERATORS WHO ARE UNRESPONSIVE TO THEIR NEIGHBORS AND, UM, CREATE A DISPROPORTIONATE NUMBER OF CALLS.
BECAUSE IT SO HAPPENS, I HAVE A FRIEND WHO LIVES RIGHT AROUND THE CORNER FROM THERE, AND I'D BE HAPPY TO SHARE IT AN APPROPRIATE TIME IN OUR PROCEEDINGS TONIGHT, WHAT MY CONVERSATION WITH MY FRIEND WAS ABOUT.
UM, I CAN DO THAT LATER IF THAT'S MORE APPROPRIATE.
WE'VE CERTAINLY HEARD FIRSTHAND TESTIMONY FROM SOME FOLKS, UM, BOTH AT THE PUBLIC MEETINGS AND WITHIN THE TASK FORCE ITSELF OF, YOU KNOW, WAYS THAT THEY FEEL LIKE THEY WERE, THEIR, THEIR ABILITY TO ENJOY THEIR PROPERTY HAS REALLY BEEN IMPINGED ON BY, BY NEIGHBORS WHO ARE OPERATING.
UM, AND TO YOUR POINT, I MEAN, WE'RE NOT REALLY GOING TO ANALYZE OR RECOMMEND ANYTHING TONIGHT.
THIS IS JUST A FEEDBACK REPORT.
WE WILL HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY AT SOME POINT WHEN, UH, A REGULATION OR WHATEVER'S BROUGHT FORWARD FOR US TO HAVE A LOT OF DIALOGUE AROUND EXPERIENCES.
UH, MR. LYLE, AND THIS MAY BE FOR STAFF, IT MAY BE AN LEGAL QUESTION, BUT I THINK RIGHT AT THE END OF THE COMMENTS WITH MR. BRUNO, MAYBE I GOT MY ANSWER.
Y'ALL ARE IN A IDENTIFY THE PROBLEM STAGE.
YOU'RE NOT IN A SOLUTION STAGE AT ALL.
WE ARE COMPLETING THIS, THIS REPORT TO YOU REPRESENTS THE COMPLETION OF THAT FIRST STAGE WHERE WE HAVE IDENTIFIED PROBLEMS AND ISSUES THAT GROW OUT OF THAT, THOSE PROBLEMS, THEN WE WILL COME BACK IN NOVEMBER AS A TASK FORCE GOTCHA.
AND BEGIN TO APPLY TO THOSE PROBLEMS THAT HAVE BEEN IDENTIFIED.
THANK YOU FOR LETTING ME KNOW
UM, ACTUALLY, I, UH, I WAS JUST ABOUT TO ASK A SIMILAR QUESTION, BUT MORE TO THAT IS THAT I WONDER WHAT YOUR NEXT STEPS ARE, BECAUSE I UNDERSTAND THAT THIS IS YOUR COMPLETION
[00:50:01]
OF IDENTIFYING THE PROBLEM.I JUST HAD A
I THINK THIS IS A GROUP BIG DEAL TO ME OR TO ANY CITIZEN IN THE CITY OF PLANO.
ON ONE SIDE, I CAN BE A NEIGHBOR OF A SHORT-TERM RENTAL PROPERTY ON THE STREET, ON THE STREET.
AM I CONCERNED ABOUT MY NEIGHBOR BECOME A HOTEL? THERE ARE PEOPLE COMING AND GO AND DON'T KNOW WHO THEY ARE.
YES, I'M CONCERNED ON THE OTHER SIDE.
I'M, I, AS A HOMEOWNER OR A PROPERTY OWNER AS A RENTAL PROPERTY, DO I WANT TO INCREASE MY INCOME SO THAT I CAN MAKE MONEY? YES, I DO.
SO I'M STILL CONCERNED ABOUT THE LOW PARTICIPATION, EVEN, EVEN THOUGH YOU SAY THIS IS NORMAL.
OR MAYBE, UH, COMMISSIONER, UH, RELATIVE, RELATIVE SAID THEY'RE CROWDED IN A ROOM.
BEING CROWDED DOESN'T MEAN THERE'S A LOT OF PEOPLE JUST BEING IN THE ROOM IS SMALL.
BUT I WOULD LIKE TO SEE, SO DO YOU HAVE A QUESTION? LET'S, LET'S, WELL, I'D LIKE TO SEE MORE PARTICIPATION.
IS THERE ANY PLAN FROM YOUR GROUP OR FROM THE CITY OR FROM THE COMMISSION THAT WE, WE CAN ALLOW FOR MORE ACTIVITIES THAT ENCOURAGE MORE PARTICIPATION TO, UM, IDENTIFY THE PROBLEM? THE ANSWER IS YES, COMMISSIONER, NOT, NOT TO IDENTIFY THE PROBLEM, BUT AS WE, I MEAN, WE'RE SUBJECT TO DIRECTION FROM THE LEADERS OF THE CITY, BUT AT THIS POINT, THE, THE IDENTIFYING THE PROBLEM PHASE IS REALLY COMPLETE.
AND YET, LET ME SAY THAT YOU'RE, YOU'RE UNDERLYING QUESTION IS, WILL THERE BE MORE CHANCES FOR COMMUNITY PARTICIPATION? THE ANSWER IS ABSOLUTELY.
WE HAVE ANOTHER OPEN HOUSE SCHEDULED FOR THE SPRING.
WE'RE GONNA BE LOOKING TO PUBLICIZE THAT WIDELY.
UH, WE WOULD LOVE HELP FROM ANYBODY ON THE DESK WHO HAS, YOU KNOW, IDEAS ABOUT THAT OR HAS YOUR, MANY OF YOU HAVE YOUR OWN LIST OF CONTACTS.
SO WE'LL BE LETTING YOU KNOW IN ADVANCE ABOUT THAT.
I, I WILL, I'M NOT SURE THIS IS GONNA PUT YOU AT EASE, BUT I'LL SAY THAT IT IS NOT JUST NORMAL.
THIS IS A GOOD RESULT FOR, FOR WHAT YOU'VE, FOR WHAT YOU'VE SEEN.
6,000 IS, IS GOOD FEEDBACK FOR THIS TYPE OF SURVEY THAT COMMUNITIES MAKE DECISIONS ON.
YOU'LL SEE IF YOU START RESEARCHING THIS, YOU SEE A LOT OF PRETTY LARGE COMMUNITIES, YOU'RE MAKING DECISIONS BASED ON JUST A FEW HUNDRED FOLKS.
UM, HAVING SAID THAT, WE AGREE WITH YOU.
WE'D LIKE TO SEE MORE COMMUNITY PARTICIPATION.
WE REALLY WANT TO URGE ANYBODY WHO'S, YOU KNOW, WATCHING TONIGHT OR PAYING ATTENTION TONIGHT TO, UH, GO TO THE WEBSITE, LOOK AT THE WEBSITE, LEARN WHAT THEY CAN, AND TO, AND TO GET BACK TO US, UH, AND TO THE TASK FORCE THROUGH THE OPEN HOUSE IN THE SPRING.
UH, MR. BARTON, FIRST I WANNA SAY THANK YOU.
UH, I KNOW WHEN YOU FIRST CAME IN, I MADE IT VERY CLEAR THAT, UH, GATHERING DATA WAS VERY IMPORTANT TO ME.
AND, UH, I WANNA SAY THANK YOU FOR BEING PURPOSEFUL AND, UH, TO COMMISSIONER TONG'S POINT.
UH, I WAS ACTUALLY READY TO ASK ABOUT THE STATISTICAL SIGNIFICANCE OF THE SURVEY, AND, UH, SO I'M VERY ENCOURAGED.
I ALSO WANT TO SAY, UH, THANK YOU TO MAYOR DYER AND, UH, YOUR ENTIRE COMMITTEE.
UM, WE ARE A CITY THAT STRIVES TO BE A CITY OF EXCELLENCE AND, UH, A COMMUNITY THAT, UH, RESPECTS EACH OTHER'S VALUES AND TRIES TO MOVE FORWARD IN A WHOLESOME DIRECTION.
AND I'M VERY ENCOURAGED BY EVERYTHING YOU'VE SAID, THAT WE'RE WORKING VERY HARD TO TACKLE THIS ISSUE IN A, A RESPECTFUL WAY, IN A, IN A WAY THAT IS OPEN AND TRANSPARENT TO EVERY CITIZEN, UH, WHETHER YOU'RE A PRO OR CON ON THIS ISSUE.
UH, SO I, I, I'M REALLY, REALLY EXCITED ABOUT EVERYTHING THAT YOU'VE SAID.
THAT BEING SAID, UM, I DO WANT TO, UH, JOIN COMMISSIONER CAREY'S CONCERN ABOUT THE TIMELINE AND THE SCHEDULE.
UH, I WANNA MAKE SURE THAT, UH, OUR COMMISSION AS WELL AS COUNSEL, UH, HAS THE TIME TO BE THOROUGH AND, UM, TO, TO MAKE GOOD DECISIONS FOR US.
AND SO I'M, I'M, I DON'T KNOW WHERE THAT CAN GO, BUT I, I, I DO SHARE THAT CONCERN.
WE'LL BE MINDFUL OF THAT AND WE'LL BE WORKING WITH YOUR STAFF TO, WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT YOUR TASK FORCE HAS TIME TO REALLY DIG INTO SOME OF THESE ISSUES.
AND WE HAVE THIS SECOND CHANCE FOR PUBLIC FEEDBACK, BUT I, I REALLY APPRECIATE THE COMMENTS AND WE'LL BE VERY MINDFUL OF THAT.
WORK WITH YOUR STAFF ON THOSE ISSUES.
I, I WAS SCROLLING THROUGH MY NOTES AND I FOUND ONE I FORGOT TO ASK, SO I APOLOGIZE.
[00:55:01]
I WAS LOOKING FOR MY NOTE ON ONE OF YOUR SLIDES.UM, YOU, YOU WENT INTO A LOT OF DETAILED ANALYSIS ABOUT CALLS FOR SUR CALLS FOR SERVICE, AND THE THEN IN THE, UH, TRADITIONAL FAMILY NEIGHBORHOODS VERSUS CALLS FOR SERVICE ON THE SHORT TERM RENTALS.
UM, BUT ONE, I ONE THING I DIDN'T SEE, AND I'D BE CURIOUS TO KNOW IT, IS IT APPEARS FROM, UM, COMMISSIONER BRUNO'S COMMENT AS WELL THAT WE HAVE ONE OR TWO BAD ACTORS THAT ARE KIND OF SKEWING THE DATA.
I'D BE CURIOUS TO KNOW IF WE, IF THOSE ONE OR TWO OR 10% BAD ACTORS WEREN'T PART OF THE DATA, HOW WOULD THAT DATA COMPARE? BECAUSE I, I'M AFRAID THAT YOU'VE GOT ONE OR TWO, ONE OR TWO OR, OR ONE OR 2% OR 10% OF THE SHORT TERM RENTALS THAT ARE REALLY SKEWING THE DATA AGAINST THE, THE REMAINDER.
AND SO IF THERE WAS A WAY TO REIGN IN THE BAD PLAYERS OR ELIMINATE THE BAD PLAYERS, WHAT WOULD THE DATA LOOK LIKE FOR EVERYBODY ELSE AS A SECOND, AS A SUBSET? AND I DON'T KNOW IF Y'ALL, IF Y'ALL HAVE THAT THINK JUST STAFF DOING A GREAT JOB ON, ON, ON WORKING WITH DATA.
AND WE'VE TRIED TO HELP OUT THERE AND I'M, I'M, THAT'S SOMETHING WE CAN TAKE A LOOK AT AND TRY AND DICE THAT.
I, I KNOW YOUR CHIEF, YOU KNOW, SPOKE THE FACT THAT REALLY OVERALL, IT'S A SMALL PERCENTAGE OF CALLS.
IT JUST IS, IT'S A SMALL AND IT'S A SMALL PERCENTAGE OF FELONIES.
AND YOU HAD SOME TASK FORCE MEMBERS WHO LIKENED IT TO A PEBBLE IN SHOE, SAID, WELL, IT MAY SEEM LIKE A PEBBLE TO YOU IN A SHOE TO YOU, BUT IF THE PEBBLE'S IN YOUR SHOE, THEN IT'S A REAL IRRITATION.
AND SO I THINK THAT'S A, WAS A REAL, UH, POINT OF INTERESTING DISCUSSION BETWEEN TASK FORCE MEMBERS BECAUSE YOU HAD SOME PEOPLE WHO OPERATE STRS OR, OR BELIEVE IN THEM.
YOU SAY, WELL, LOOK, IT REALLY IS JUST A FEW BAD ACTORS.
YOU SHOULDN'T SAY IT'S MOSTLY NEGATIVE.
THE DATA DOESN'T SUPPORT THAT.
YOU HAD OTHER PEOPLE IN THE TASK FORCE WHO FELT LIKE YOU CAN'T LOOK ONLY AT POLICE DATA BECAUSE THERE ARE OTHER PEOPLE WHO NEVER MAKE THAT CALL OR WHO LIVE, WHO LIVE WITH A PROBLEM, BUT NEVER CALL IN.
OR, UH, SOME PEOPLE IN THE TASK FORCE FEEL LIKE CITIZENS MIGHT BE INTIMIDATED ABOUT CALLING.
UM, SO I THINK YOUR STAFF IS WORKING ON THAT.
WE'RE WORKING ON THAT TO TRY AND GET, UH, MORE DATA TO REALLY TEASE OUT THAT QUESTION.
THE DATA IS DIFFICULT TO COME BY SOMETIMES.
BUT, UH, WE'LL KEEP YOU INFORMED ON THAT.
OKAY, MR. BELL, YOU HAVE A, YEAH, JUST ONE COMMENT FOR CONTEXT ON THE PUBLIC OUTREACH.
UM, AS YOU HEARD THE, THE SURVEY FOR THE SHORT TERM RENTALS HAD OVER 6,000 RESPONSES.
FOR COMPARISON, THE CONFERENCE TO PLAN REVIEW DRAFT SURVEY HAD ABOUT 1100 RESPONSES, AND THAT INCLUDED SENDING OUT A POSTCARD TO EVERY ADDRESS IN TOWN.
SO THERE'S SIGNIFICANT MORE INTEREST IN THIS TOPIC.
I, I WILL SAY WE WORKED PRETTY HARD TO DO A VERY TARGETED ADVERTISING.
WE'D BE GLAD TO FILL YOU IN MORE ON THAT LATER.
AND, UH, I ECHO MR. DYER, UH, MAYOR DYER, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR LEADERSHIP.
UH, I THINK YOU'RE THE PERFECT PERSON TO KIND OF LEAD THIS, THIS OPERATION.
SO, UH, WE APPRECIATE THE REPORT.
WE LOOK FORWARD TO, UH, WHAT YOU BRING US NEXT.
AND IT'S NOT A PUBLIC HEARING ITEM, BUT I BELIEVE WE HAVE SOMEBODY WHO WANTED TO SPEAK ON THIS ISSUE.
UM, CORY REKER DIDN'T KNOW I WAS GONNA BE THE ONLY ONE.
UM, DO I GET THE, UH, THE VISUAL? I'VE GOT A COUPLE OF THOUGHTS HERE.
UH, GOOD EVENING, COMMISSIONERS.
I'VE LIVED IN PLANO SINCE GRADUATING COLLEGE AND I'VE BEEN A HOMEOWNER HERE FOR 12 YEARS.
UH, MY WIFE KRISTEN, IS A TASK FORCE MEMBER.
HER AND I HAVE HOSTED A GUEST BEDROOM AT OUR HOUSE SINCE 2017 AS A SHORT-TERM RENTAL.
RUNNING AN S T R HAS BEEN A REWARDING EXPERIENCE.
WE'VE MET INTERESTING PEOPLE, MADE NEW FRIENDS.
WE'VE HAD VERY FEW ISSUES WITH GUESTS.
UM, AND THERE HAVE BEEN NO NEGATIVE EFFECTS ON OUR NEIGHBORHOOD OVER THE PAST SEVERAL MONTHS.
UH, I'VE ATTENDED ALL OF THE TASK FORCE MEETINGS.
UM, CITY STAFF AND GAP STRATEGIES SHOULD BE COMMENDED FOR THE HARD WORK ON THIS CHALLENGING ISSUE.
THAT SAID, I HAVE SERIOUS CONCERNS WITH THE STATEMENT OF FINDINGS BEFORE YOU THIS EVENING.
SPECIFICALLY FROM WHAT I'VE OBSERVED, FINDING NUMBER ONE BEARS VERY LITTLE RELATION TO THE FACTS SURROUNDING S STR.
THE FACTS ARE THERE ARE VERY FEW STR IN PLANO RELATIVE TO THE NUMBER OF HOUSING UNITS.
UM, THIS SMALL NUMBER OF SDRS IS RELATIVELY EVENLY DISTRIBUTED.
THERE ARE NO SIGNIFICANT CONCENTRATIONS IN ANY RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOODS.
THE LEGACY AREA IS THE ONLY PART OF TOWN WITH A HIGHER CONCENTRATION, AND THOSE LISTINGS ARE PRIMARILY IN MULTI-FAMILY BUILDINGS.
I HAVE THAT MAP ON THERE, BUT IT'S PROBABLY TOO SMALL TO SEE.
[01:00:01]
UM, THE NUMBER OF CALLS FOR SERVICE AT STR IS A TINY FRACTION OF THE TOTAL CALLS FOR SERVICE THAT THE CITY DEALS WITH ANNUALLY.BOTH CHIEF DRAIN AND NEIGHBORHOOD SERVICES STATED THAT STR ARE A VERY SMALL AREA OF CONCERN AND THEY HAVE NO CHALLENGES DEALING WITH THE ISSUES THAT DO ARISE.
THE DATA SHOWS WHERE THERE ARE PROBLEMS, THERE ARE CONCENTRATED AMONG A HANDFUL OF PROBLEM LISTINGS.
UM, WHEN READ CORRECTLY, THE FACTS AND THE DATA INDICATE THAT THE NEGATIVE EFFECTS OF SDRS ARE LIMITED AND DIFFUSE.
UM, BUT WHERE SERIOUS PROBLEMS OCCUR, THEY ARE ACUTE.
UM, MORE BROADLY, THE, THESE, THESE DEFECTS, THE, THE CONSENSUSES THAT HAVE BEEN REACHED, UM, IN THIS STATEMENT OF FINDINGS ARE DRIVEN BY THE FACT THAT THE TASK FORCE HAS A BUILT-IN BIAS.
AT LEAST NINE MEMBERS, UM, OR THEIR SPOUSES ARE MEMBERS OF THE TEXAS NEIGHBORHOOD COALITION, WHICH IS AN, UH, ORGANIZATION THAT'S DEDICATED TO BANNING STRS.
UM, FURTHER AT THE FIRST, THE VERY FIRST MEETING OF THE TASK FORCE, OVER HALF OF THE MEMBERS EXPRESSED ANTI S D R SENTIMENT FROM THE OUTSET.
UM, THIS BIAS IMPEDES THE FUNCTIONING OF THE TASK FORCE, UM, AS A VEHICLE OF A FAIR AND DELIBERATIVE PROCESS.
IT UNDERMINES THE PRODUCTS OF THE TASK FORCE AND IT WILL WEAKEN THE DEFENSIBILITY OF ANY SUBSEQUENT RE REGULATIONS.
I WOULD HOPE THAT, THAT THE TASK FORCE WILL HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO RECONSIDER, REFINE, AND REVISE SOME OF THESE FINDINGS SO THAT THEY'RE BETTER ALIGNED WITH THE ACTUAL DATA THAT THE TASK FORCE IS UNCOVERED.
ANY MORE SPEAKERS ON THIS ITEM? WE DO NOT.
I DO WANNA STATE FOR THE RECORD THAT WE DO HAVE, UH, TWO INDIVIDUALS THAT, UH, REGISTERED THEIR OPINION AS IN, UH, OPPOSED TO THE, UM, ITEM SIX OPPOSED TO A REPORT ON SHORT TERM REALMS. OKAY.
ALRIGHT, WELL, THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE.
[1. (KC) Public Hearing: Zoning Case 2023-006 - Request for Specific Use Permits for a Private Club and Food Truck Park on 0.8 acre located 524 feet north of Park Boulevard and 940 feet east of Preston Road. Zoned Retail. Project #ZC2023-006. Tabled on September 18, 2023. Petitioner: AmREIT SSPF Preston Gold, LP (Request to table to November 6, 2023)]
TO ITEM ONE, OUR, UH, PUBLIC HEARING ITEMS, PLEASE.ITEMS FOR INDIVIDUAL CONSIDERATION.
PUBLIC HEARING ITEMS, UNLESS INSTRUCTED OTHERWISE BY THE CHAIR, SPEAKERS, WILL BE CALLED IN THE ORDER.
APPLICANTS ARE LIMITED TO A TOTAL OF 15 MINUTES OF PRESENTATION TIME WITH A FIVE MINUTE REBUTTAL IF NEEDED.
REMAINING SPEAKERS ARE LIMITED TO 30 TOTAL MINUTES OF TESTIMONY TIME WITH THREE MINUTES ASSIGNED PER SPEAKER.
PRESIDING OFFICER MAY MODIFY THESE TIMES AS DEEMED NECESSARY.
ADMINISTRATIVE CONSIDERATION ITEMS MUST BE APPROVED IF THEY MEET CITY DEVELOPMENT REGULATIONS.
LEGISLATIVE CONSIDERATION ITEMS ARE MORE DISCRETIONARY EXCEPT AS CONSTRAINED BY LEGAL CONSIDERATIONS.
AGENDA ITEM NUMBER ONE, PUBLIC HEARING ZONING CASE.
REQUEST FOR SPECIFIC USE PERMITS FOR A PRIVATE CLUB AND FOOD TRUCK PARK ON 0.8 ACRE, LOCATED 524 FEET NORTH OF PARK BOULEVARD AND 940 FEET EAST OF PRESTON ROAD.
PETITIONER IS AMRI, S S P F, PRESTON GOLD LP.
THIS IS FOR LEGISLATIVE CONSIDERATION.
EVENING, MR. CHAIR MEMBERS OF THE COMMISSION.
I'M ROJA ULA, LEAD PLANNER WITH THE PLANNING DEPARTMENT.
UM, THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING TO TABLE THIS ITEM TO NOVEMBER 6TH OF PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION.
AND STAFF RECOMMENDS THAT THE COMMISSION ACCEPTS THE REQUEST.
UH, I'M HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS YOU MIGHT HAVE.
COMMISSIONER BROSKI, CAN YOU ELABORATE A LITTLE BIT AS TO, UH, WHY THE TABLING? SURE.
UM, IN THIS LOT WE HAVE, UM, CURRENTLY HAVE AN INTENSIVE USE AND, UM, THE INTENSIVE USE AND, UH, THE PROPOSED USE, UH, WILL REQUIRE, UM, SOME PARKING SPACES THAT STAFF IS, UH, TRYING TO, UH, FIND THE, UH, FIND A WAY TO SEE IF, UM, THE APPLICANT CAN, UH, PROVIDE THE, AND THE, THE REQUIRED NUMBER OF PARKING SPACES FOR THIS SITE.
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR STAFF? SEEING NONE, THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
DO WE HAVE ANY SPEAKERS ON THIS ITEM? NO, WE DO NOT.
THANK YOU ALL CALLS OF PUBLIC HEARING, CONFINED DISCUSSION OF THE COMMISSION.
WE TABLED THIS CASE, UH, 2023 DASH 0 0 6 TILL THE NOVEMBER 6TH, 2023 MEETING.
UM, I DON'T OPPOSE THE MOTION, BUT I WOULD SUGGEST THAT THE COMMISSION ASK THE STAFF, SINCE THIS IS THE THIRD TIME THEY'RE ASKING FOR A POSTPONEMENT TO, UM, THE COMMISSION WOULD LIKE THEM TO BE PREPARED TO GO FORWARD THE NEXT TIME THIS CASE IS SET.
ARE YOU GONNA SECOND THE MOTION? I'LL SECOND THE MOTION WITH THAT.
WELL, YOU CAN'T MAKE A PROVISION ON THE MOTION, BUT, UM, I, I, I THINK WHAT WE HAVE TO DO IS WE'RE EITHER GONNA TABLE IT OR WE'RE NOT.
IF WE'RE GONNA TABLE IT THE NEXT TIME THEY BRING IT BACK, WE COULD CHOOSE
[01:05:01]
NOT TO TABLE IT AND HAVE THE DISCUSSION.SO I, I THINK WE'RE IN AGREEING TO TABLE IT OR THE MOTION IS TO TABLE.
IF THE APPLICANT'S WATCHING NOW, WELL, THEY'RE WORKING WITH STAFF, SO THERE'S A LITTLE BURDEN ON STAFF HERE TOO, OBVIOUSLY, TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO MAKE THIS WORK.
[2. (MK) Public Hearing: Zoning Case 2023-022 - Request to amend Article 8 (Definitions), Article 14 (Allowed Uses and Use Classifications), Article 15 (Use-specific Regulations), Article 16 (Parking and Loading), and related sections of the Zoning Ordinance to allow pet funeral homes and to add a land use classification and associated restrictions for crematories. Project #ZC2023-022. Petitioner: Alan and Rene Blackmore (Legislative consideration)]
PUBLIC HEARING ZONING CASE.REQUEST TO AMEND ARTICLE EIGHT DEFINITIONS.
ARTICLE 14 ALLOWED USES AND USE CLASSIFICATIONS.
ARTICLE 15, USE SPECIFIC REGULATIONS ARTICLE 16, PARKING AND LOADING AND RELATED SECTIONS OF THE ZONING ORDINANCE TO ALLOW PET FUNERAL HOMES AND TO ADD LAND USE CLASSIFICATION IN ASSOCIATED RESTRICTIONS FOR CRE CREMATOR PETITIONER IS ALAN AND RENEE BLACKMORE.
THIS IS FOR LEGISLATIVE CONSIDERATION.
I'M MELISSA KLEIN, LEAD PLANNER WITH THE PLANNING DEPARTMENT.
THIS IS A REQUEST TO AMEND THE ZONING ORDINANCE TO ADD A NEW LAND USE DEFINITION AND REGULATIONS FOR CREMATORY USE, AS WELL AS AMEND THE DEFINITION FOR MORTUARY SLASH FUNERAL PARLOR TO ALLOW FOR PET FUNERAL HOMES.
THE REQUEST WAS INITIATED BY A PROPOSAL TO OPERATE A PET FUNERAL HOME IN CREMATORY IN PLANO.
AT THE JUNE 19TH COMMISSION MEETING, STAFF PRESENTED INFORMATION TO THE COMMISSION WITH A REQUEST TO DETERMINE WHETHER A NEW LAND USE SHOULD BE ADDED TO THE ZONING ORDINANCE TO REGULATE PET FUNERAL HOME AND CREMATORY SERVICES.
THE COMMISSION DIRECTED STAFF TO INCLUDE PET FUNERAL HOMES IN THE MORTUARY FUNERAL HOME USE, AND ASKED FOR ADDITIONAL RESEARCH.
AT THE AUGUST 21ST COMMISSION MEETING, STAFF PRESENTED INFORMATION RESPONDING TO QUESTIONS RAISED BY THE COMMISSION AT THAT JUNE 19TH MEETING, AND REQUESTED ADDITIONAL DIRECTION.
THE COMMISSION DIRECTED STAFF TO ADD A CREMATORY USE TO THE ZONING ORDINANCE WITH RESTRICTIONS ON LOCATION AS WELL AS CALL TO PUBLIC HEARING.
THE CURRENT MORTUARY FUNERAL PARLOR DEFINITION IS SPECIFIC TO HUMAN BODIES.
THE DEFINITION IS PROPOSED TO BE AMENDED TO INCLUDE ANIMAL AS WELL AS HUMAN REMAINS.
PET FUNERAL HOMES WILL BE TREATED THE SAME AS HUMAN FUNERAL, FUNERAL HOMES, AND FOLLOW ALL REGULATIONS FOR THE USE.
CURRENTLY IN THE ZONING ORDINANCE, BOTH HUMAN AND ANIMAL CREMATOR ARE REQUIRED TO RECEIVE PERMITS FROM THE TEXAS COMMISSION ON ENVIRONMENTAL QUALITY.
UNDER THE TEXAS ADMINISTRATIVE CODE, BOTH CREMATORY TYPES HAVE CAPACITY LIMITS.
HOWEVER, ANIMAL CREMATOR HAVE ADDITIONAL RESTRICTIONS INCLUDING ASH CONTROL, DISTANCE SEPARATION FROM PROPERTY LINES AND OTHER NUISANCE ABATEMENT.
IN ADDITION, ALL HUMAN AND ANIMAL INCINERATOR MUST BE INSTALLED AND OPERATED PER CHAPTER ONE 11 OF THE TEXAS ADMINISTRATIVE CODE, WHICH PERTAINS TO VISIBLE EMISSIONS AND PARTICULATE MATTER.
THE ZONING ORDINANCE ALSO INCLUDES REGULATIONS REGARDING SMOKE, PARTICULATE MATTER, AND ODOR MATTER, WHICH ALL USES ARE REQUIRED TO COMPLY WITH THE, THE CITY DOES HAVE A GOVERNMENT FACILITY CREMATORIUM CONNECTED TO PLANO ANIMAL SERVICES LOCATED AT THE ANIMAL SHELTER.
WHILE ANIMAL SERVICES HAS NOT RECEIVED PUBLIC COMPLAINTS REGARDING THEIR CREMATION FACILITY, THE DEPARTMENT HAS RECEIVED REPORTS FROM EMPLOYEES AND OTHER CITY FACILITIES UP TO 1400 FEET AWAY.
THESE ISSUES GENERALLY CONCERN ODOR AND OR SMOKE AND ARE LINKED TO MALFUNCTIONING EQUIPMENT OR EQUIPMENT IN NEED OF MAINTENANCE.
FOR THIS REASONING, THE DRAFT, UM, STANDARDS INCLUDE MAINTENANCE REQUIREMENTS.
A NEW DEFINITION AND LAND USE IS PROPOSED FOR CREMATORY USES DUE TO THE ANTICIPATED POTENTIAL CONCERNS THAT MIGHT OCCUR WITH THE CREMATORY USE, THE USE IS PROPOSED TO BE PERMITTED ONLY WITH THE APPROVAL OF A SPECIFIC USE PERMIT IN THE LIGHT INDUSTRIAL ONE AND LIGHT INDUSTRIAL TWO ZONING DISTRICTS.
IN ADDITION, THE USE SPECIFIC STANDARDS ARE PROPOSED FOR CREMATOR, WHICH WILL INCLUDE THAT CREMATOR WILL NOT BE PERMITTED WITHIN 2000 FEET OF A RESIDENTIAL USE.
THIS IS A CONSERVATIVE DISTANCE AND COULD BE AMENDED IN THE FUTURE IF APPROPRIATE.
CREMATORY EQUIPMENT WILL BE REQUIRED TO BE CONSISTENTLY MAINTAINED TO MINIMIZE ISSUES REGARDING ODOR OR SMOKE.
AND CREMATOR WILL BE REQUIRED TO OPERATE FULLY INDOORS WITH NO OUTSIDE STORAGE OF GOODS OR MATERIALS TO REDUCE POTENTIAL NUISANCES IN A MAP SHOWING THE 2000 FOOT BUFFER IS SHOWN HERE.
THE BUFFER IS IN BLUE AND THE L I ONE AND L I TWO DISTRICTS ARE IN PURPLE.
SO THE PURPLE AREAS NOT OVERLAPPED WITH THE BLUE ARE WHERE THE USE WOULD BE PERMITTED.
UNDER THESE PROPOSED CHANGES, STAFF REVIEWED CREMATORY REQUIREMENTS IN OTHER COMMUNITIES, WHICH ARE LISTED HERE.
[01:10:01]
MANY COMMUNITIES LIMIT THE USE TO INDUSTRIAL DISTRICTS.IT IS MOST COMMON FOR THE USE TO BE PERMITTED EITHER BY A SPECIFIC USE PERMIT OR AS AN ACCESSORY USE TO A FUNERAL HOME OR CEMETERY.
THE PROPOSED CHANGES ARE IN CONFORMANCE WITH THE GUIDING PRINCIPLES, LAND USE POLICY AND LAND USE ACTION.
ONE OF THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, NO RESPONSES WERE RECEIVED FOR THIS ITEM AND STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL AS SHOWN IN THE STAFF REPORT.
AND I CAN ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS.
I WANNA SAY THANKS FOR ALL THE WORK, ALL THE DATA, ALL THE RESEARCH.
UM, I REALLY LIKE THE WAY THIS HAS BEEN HANDLED THROUGHOUT THE PROCESS.
MR. RATLIFF, THANK YOU CHAIRMAN, UH, DITTO ABOUT THE RESEARCH.
UH, VERY THOROUGH, UH, WHICH ACTUALLY CREATED MORE THOUGHTS IN MY HEAD, WHICH I APPRECIATE BECAUSE THAT WAS KIND OF THE PURPOSE.
SO, UM, COUPLE OF QUESTIONS INITIALLY.
THERE ARE LOTS OF INDUSTRIES THAT HAVE T C E Q PERMITS.
THE TWO THAT IMMEDIATELY COME TO MIND ARE CONCRETE BATCH PLANTS AND, UM, AUTOMOBILE COLLISION CENTERS THAT HAVE EMISSION STANDARDS ASSOCIATED.
DO WE HAVE ANY RESTRICTIONS? RESIDENTIAL ADJACENCY STANDARDS OR SETBACKS ON OTHER INDUSTRIES THAT HAVE T C E Q PERMIT REQUIREMENTS? SO, I DON'T KNOW OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD ALL OF THE USES THAT REQUIRE A PERMIT BECAUSE THERE ARE SO MANY, AND IT DEPENDS ON THE OPERATION OR IT COULD DEPEND ON THE LOCATION, BUT WE DO HAVE USE RESTRICTION OR DISTANCE RESTRICTIONS FOR OTHER USES IN THE ZONING ORDINANCE.
LIKE OUR, UM, TATTOO SHOPS, PRIVATE CLUBS, THERE ARE, UM, THE RESIDENTIAL ADJACENCY STANDARDS.
SO CERTAIN USES LIKE CAR WASHES WOULD ALSO REQUIRE SEPARATION DISTANCES.
YEAH, SO I'VE READ MOST OF THOSE IN THE ORDINANCE.
I MAY NOT HAVE GOTTEN ALL OF 'EM AND MOST OF 'EM SEEM TO BE RELATED TO NOISE, UM, AS OPPOSED TO EMISSIONS.
AND SO, UM, BUT I DIDN'T FIND ANY INDUSTRIES THAT IT WAS OBVIOUS ANYWAY THAT WERE REGULATED DUE TO EMISSIONS VERSUS NOISE.
AND I MEAN, OBVIOUSLY WE'VE GOT THE, THE ZONES AROUND THE, AROUND THE FREEWAYS, THE HEALTH ZONES AROUND THE FREEWAYS.
BUT, UM, I WAS JUST DIDN'T KNOW IF THERE WERE ANY EXAMPLES THAT YOU COULD THINK OF THAT WOULD BE COMPARABLE TO THIS CASE OR THIS, THIS USE? NOT OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD, NO.
UM, COURSE MR. THERE ARE S USES THAT ARE UNDER HEAVY MANUFACTURING, WHICH REQUIRES SUVS IN SOME LOCATIONS.
SO I THINK IT'S HANDLED IN A SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT WAY.
IT'S NOT, MAYBE THAT'S WHAT I MISSED, BUT IT'S AN S U P.
SO, SO THERE MIGHT BE A CASE UNDER HEAVY INDUSTRY WHERE THERE IS A, A CLAUSE IN THERE TO REQUIRE AN S U P? CORRECT.
THAT I DIDN'T READ THAT PART, SO I'LL HAVE TO GO BACK AND LOOK AT THAT.
UM, THE SECOND QUESTION, AND, AND I THINK I POSED IT TO A COUPLE OF STAFF MEMBERS, SO I'M JUST GONNA THROW IT OUT THERE 'CAUSE I DON'T THINK THERE'S AN ANSWER, BUT I WANT TO HAVE IT ON THE PUBLIC RECORD, IS THE 2000 FOOT BUFFER AND LOOKING AT THE MAP THAT YOU PREPARED, IF YOU CAN PUT IT BACK UP THERE, IF YOU WOULDN'T MIND.
UM, I NOTE TWO PARTICULAR, WELL, FIRST OF ALL, THERE ARE ONLY THREE AREAS IN TOWN THAT WOULD BE ELIGIBLE UNDER THIS RULE.
OF THOSE THREE AREAS, ALL THREE OF THEM ARE WITHIN 2000 FEET OF RESIDENTIAL AREAS IN THE CITY ADJACENT TO US.
AND SO MY QUESTION FOR THE STAFF THAT NOBODY HAS HAD THE CHANCE TO RESEARCH, 'CAUSE I JUST ASKED IT TONIGHT, WAS ARE WE PROHIBITED FROM CONSIDERING THE RESIDENTIAL ADJACENCY IN OUR NEIGHBORING CITIES? I KNOW WE'RE NOT REQUIRED TO, BUT UNDER KIND OF A GOOD NEIGHBOR, UM, POLICY, I THINK WE MIGHT HAVE AN ISSUE IF THEY DID IT RIGHT ACROSS THE CITY LIMITS ON THEIR SIDE.
UM, AND I THINK THAT'S SOMETHING WE SHOULD DEFINITELY CONSIDER AS RESIDENTIAL ADJACENCY IF WE ARE TO MOVE FORWARD WITH A, A DISTANCE REQUIREMENT OF RESIDENTIAL ADJACENCY EVEN TO OUR NEIGHBORS.
AND I KNOW THERE'S SOME PRACTICAL ISSUES ABOUT THAT, UM, ABOUT KNOWING WHAT THE ZONING IS ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE LINE.
BUT WHEN YOU HAVE A APARTMENT COMPLEX LITERALLY ACROSS THE STREET FROM ONE OF THESE AREAS, UM, IT IS VERY OBVIOUS IT'S WITHIN THE 2000 FOOT BUFFER.
UM, AND ANOTHER, WELL, ACTUALLY IN EVERY ONE OF THESE CASES THERE'S RESIDENTIAL AREA WITHIN 2000 FEET.
UM, AND SO THAT CONCERNS ME AS OF JUST BEING A GOOD NEIGHBOR TO OUR ADJACENT CITIES, UM, THAT THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE OUGHT TO AT LEAST CONSIDER IF WE DO A 2000 FOOT BUFFER.
SO, UM, AND THAT'S MORE OF A COMMENT THAN A QUESTION, I GUESS.
SO THAT'S ACTUALLY A GOOD QUESTION.
AND YOU KNOW, IT WAS BROUGHT UP EARLIER.
UH, I'M WONDERING A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE FACT THAT THIS IS ONLY HAPPENING UNDER AN S U P IS THAT GIVES US THE OPPORTUNITY, IF IT'S BROUGHT FORWARD, MY CONCERN WOULD
[01:15:01]
BE A APPLICANT UNDERSTANDING THAT I'M WITHIN, I'M NOT WITHIN 2000 FEET OF THE RESIDENTIAL AREA IN PLANO, BUT I AM OUTSIDE.ARE THEY GONNA KNOW THE DIFFERENCE? SO I THINK WE PROBABLY NEED TO RESOLVE THIS AND IT COULD BE LEGALLY CAN WE ENFORCE SOMETHING LIKE THAT? SO, UM, I I THINK I'M GONNA LEAN ON YOU A LITTLE BIT HERE.
UH, WHETHER WE SHOULD KIND OF MOVE FORWARD WITH THIS OR IS THAT A QUESTION THAT WE SHOULD GET ANSWERED VERSUS HAVING TO MODIFY THIS LATER? IF YOU'RE JUST DEALING WITH POTENTIALS GOING FORWARD, THOSE ARE ALL CASE BY CASE.
SO YOU COULD DEAL WITH IT AT THAT TIME AS PART OF YOUR CONSIDERATION OF WHETHER YOU THINK THE S E P IS APPROPRIATE.
AND, AND I I CAN SEE THAT PATH.
I JUST WANNA MAKE CLEAR, FOR EXAMPLE, THIS PETITIONER WHERE THEY'RE LOOKING TO ADD THIS, IF THEY'RE GONNA BE WITHIN 2000 FEET AND WE'RE PUTTING THAT IN THERE AND THEY THINK THEY'RE GOOD BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT WITHIN 2000 FEET OF A RESIDENCE IN PLANO, BUT IT'S OUR CITY POLICY AS A GOOD NEIGHBOR TO CONSIDER THAT.
I, I JUST, I'M CURIOUS ABOUT, I'M CAUTIOUS ABOUT SENDING THE WRONG MESSAGE AND SO I I DON'T WANNA DELAY THIS.
I KNOW IT'S A SPECIAL USE PERMIT.
UH, I'M CONCERNED, UH, A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE DIFFICULT DECISION TO MAKE HERE, BUT OKAY.
SO TO YOUR POINT, IT'S UNDER AN SS U P, UH, BUT THEY OBVIOUSLY ARE GOING TO COME BACK AND DO THAT, AND IF WE'VE SET IT UP, SET THEM UP FOR FAILURE FROM THE START, THEN WE'VE MAYBE HAD ALL OF THIS EXERCISE FOR, FOR NOTHING.
UH, WELL, MR. LYLE, YOUR NEXT I I'LL GO THROUGH OUR, OUR QUE OUR SYSTEM HERE, BUT I THINK WE NEED TO THINK THIS THROUGH.
YES, MR. LAW, I WOULD JUST SAY THAT IF THESE ARE THE, I'M CURIOUS WHY THE APPLICANT'S NOT HERE FOR ONE.
AM I CORRECT? THEY'RE NOT HERE.
HE WAS NOT ABLE TO ATTEND TONIGHT.
OF THE THREE AREAS THAT THIS USE WOULD BE ALLOWED AT THE BOTTOM OF THE SCREEN THAT IS UP THERE, UH, AM I RIGHT OR CAN YOU TELL ME, IS THE MIDDLE AREA, IS THAT WHERE THE CITY OF PLANOS CREMATORY IS? DO WE FOLLOW OUR OWN POLICY? IS MY QUESTION? DO WE FOLLOW THE POLICY THAT WE'RE WRITING TODAY, IS MY QUESTION.
SO I WOULD HAVE TO LOOK AT THE MAP.
I CAN'T SAY RIGHT WITHOUT IT IN FRONT OF ME.
IT SEEMS IT'S REALLY CLOSE, IT'S CLOSE TO THERE.
I I, BASED ON MY UNDERSTANDING OF PLANO, I THINK IT IS CLOSE, BUT I WOULD SAY IF WE'RE WRITING A POLICY AND WE'RE NOT EVEN FOLLOWING IT ON THE OUTSET, WE SHOULD KNOW THE ANSWER TO THAT.
AND THEN I WOULD JUST SAY IF I, I RECENTLY LOST A PET AND I'M VERY FAMILIAR WITH THIS LARGEST AREA, PERMISSIBLE AREA IN EAST PLANO, AND I DON'T KNOW THAT I WOULD WANT TO TAKE MY YOUNG KIDS AND GO TO THIS WAREHOUSE DISTRICT TO DO THIS ANYWAY.
AND SO I DON'T KNOW IF THESE PEOPLE ARE GONNA HAVE LIKE A FRONT END PLACE WHERE IT WOULD MAKE SENSE TO TAKE A FAMILY AND MORE THAN THE LOSS.
AND THEN THEY'RE GONNA DO THIS OFFSITE BECAUSE THESE AREAS SEEM MORE LIKE SOME WERE OFFSITE.
AND MY UNDERSTANDING FROM THE APPLICANT IN THE PAST, IT'S ALL ONE, IT'S ALL DONE ON SITE.
SO YOU, YOU KNOW, YOUR PET'S COMING HERE AND THIS IS WHERE WE'RE GOING TO
AND SO, WELL, LET'S, LET'S BOIL IT DOWN TO A, A
WHAT I WOULD BOIL IT DOWN TO IS THAT WE'VE GONE THROUGH A BUNCH OF POLICY AND A BUNCH OF WORK WITH STAFF AND IF THIS IS THE ONLY PLACE THAT WE'RE GONNA ALLOW IT, AND YOU HAVE TO GO THROUGH THE S U P PROCESS, I THINK WE'RE PROBABLY JUST SAYING YOU CAN'T DO IT IN PLANO.
IS THAT A QUESTION FOR STAFF IN THERE? RIGHT.
SO I DO HAVE A COUPLE QUESTIONS,
SO, UM, OUT OF ALL THE CITIES THAT YOU SURVEYED OUTTA ALL, ALL THE CITIES YOU SURVEYED, WHAT WAS THEIR BUFFER? SO MOST CITIES DO NOT HAVE A BUFFER.
I BELIEVE, UM, DALLAS HAD ADDITIONAL REQUIREMENTS.
I WOULD NEED TO LOOK AND SEE EXACTLY WHAT THEY WERE, BUT NO OTHER CITIES HAD A BUFFER, SO NO OTHER CITIES HAD A BUFFER.
AND HOW DID WE COME UP WITH THE 2000 FEET?
[01:20:01]
SO WE BASED IT BASED OFF OF THE CURRENT LOCATION AT ANIMAL SERVICES AND THE COMPLAINTS THAT THEY'VE RECEIVED FROM OTHER CITY STAFF FACILITIES.SO I THOUGHT YOU SAID THE COMPLAINTS THEY HAD WERE WITHIN 1400 FEET? YES, THAT'S CORRECT.
SO WHERE DID WE COME UP WITH THE OTHER 600? SO WE WANTED TO TAKE A CONSERVATIVE APPROACH, JUST NOT KNOWING, SINCE THAT'S OUR ONLY EXAMPLE, NOT KNOWING EXACTLY WHAT THE IMPACT WOULD BE IF THERE ARE, YOU KNOW, OTHER FACILITIES THROUGHOUT THE CITY WHERE THERE ARE MAINTENANCE ISSUES WITH THEIR INCINERATOR CAUSING ODOR OR SMOKE.
SO WE, WE WENT FOR THE MORE CONSERVATIVE APPROACH ON THE HIGHER END NOW, AND IF IT PROVES TO NOT BE A PROBLEM, IF WE RECEIVED DIRECTION LATER TO LOWER THAT, IT'S SOMETHING WE COULD LOOK INTO.
SO YOU ALSO MENTIONED A FEW MINUTES AGO THAT, UH, IN EFFORT TO ADDRESS THE MAINTENANCE CONCERNS YOU ACTUALLY WROTE THAT IN, CORRECT? YES, WE DID.
SO, UM, LET'S STICK TO QUESTIONS FOR NOW AND THEN WE WILL GET AROUND TO DIALOGUE.
UM, ACCORDING TO THE T C E Q, UH, PARTICULATE AND, UH, ODORS, WHAT'S THE CON WHAT'S THE CONCERN RADIUS FOR THAT? SO THEY DON'T HAVE A SPECIFIC RADIUS FOR ANIMAL CREMATORIES.
THEY HAVE TO BE, I BELIEVE IT'S 50 FEET, UM, FROM THE PROPERTY LINES ON THE, UM, WHERE THEY'RE LOCATED, BUT THEY DON'T HAVE ANY OTHER PARTICULAR LIKE RADIUS AS FAR AS THE REQUIREMENTS ARE CONCERNED.
SO THE T E C Q HAS NONE, HAS NO BUFFER.
MOST OTHER CITIES DON'T HAVE A BUFFER.
AND WE TALKED TO ANIMAL SERVICES AND THEY TOLD US FOR THEY WERE GETTING PROBLEMS 1400 FEET AWAY.
SO WE'RE GONNA DO 2000, IS THAT CORRECT? YES.
SO A GOOD BEFORE WE MOVE ON AND BECAUSE WE, WE SEEM TO BE FOCUSED ON THIS DISTANCE THING, UNDERSTAND THAT BECAUSE IT'S AN SS U P PROCESS, WE COULD SET IT WITH ZERO BOUNDARIES AND THEN AT EACH S U P DECIDE TO CREATE A BOUNDARY.
SO I THAT, THAT SOUNDS MUCH MORE LOGICAL TO ME.
SO I JUST WANNA MAKE THAT CLEAR TO EVERYBODY.
SO THAT'S WHY I BROUGHT THE QUESTION UP.
UM, MR. BRUNO QUESTIONS, LET'S JUST FOCUS ON TECHNICAL QUESTIONS, HAS TO BE IN THE FORM OF A QUESTION.
I UNDERSTAND
UH, THE ONLY MAP I SAW WAS THE 2000 FOOT MAP.
IS THERE ANOTHER ONE? SO WE DID NOT INCLUDE THE OTHER MAPS IN THE REPORT OR PRESENTATION AS WE WERE LOOKING AT THEM TRYING TO DETERMINE WHAT DISTANCE WE WANTED TO PROPOSE.
AND SINCE WE WENT WITH THE 2000, WE ONLY INCLUDED THE 2000, UM, FOOT MAP.
AND WHEN WE COMPARED THE, THE REALLY THREE MAPS, THE, THE, THOSE BUFFERS DIDN'T REALLY MAKE A SIGNIFICANT DIS DIFFERENCE.
IT OBVIOUSLY THERE'S MORE LAND, BUT IT WASN'T A, IT DIDN'T, YOU KNOW, OPEN UP A SIGNIFICANT PORTION, SIX AREAS.
UM, AND WE WANTED TO TAKE THAT CONSERVATIVE APPROACH SO THAT WE WEREN'T POTENTIALLY, YOU KNOW, WANTING TO MAKE IT A SHORTER DISTANCE IN THE FUTURE, BUT HAVING CREMATOR NOW IN PLACE AND NOT BEING ABLE TO, NOW, I UNDERSTOOD FROM YOUR PRESENTATION THAT THE COMPLAINTS THE CITY DID RECEIVE WERE TIED TO MALFUNCTIONING EQUIPMENT THAT WAS IN NEED OF MAINTENANCE OR REPAIR.
IS THAT RIGHT? THAT'S CORRECT, YES.
UH, I ASSUME THE THE REPAIRS WERE WERE, WERE THEN COMPLETED? YES.
WERE THERE THEN COMPLAINTS AFTER THE REPAIRS WERE WERE COMPLETED? TO MY KNOWLEDGE, NO.
SO PERHAPS KEEPING THE EQUIPMENT IN GOOD REPAIR IS A MORE IMPORTANT ISSUE THAN, RIGHT.
MR. LYLE, A QUESTION, DO WE, I'M GONNA, INSTEAD OF RIGHT, I'M GONNA GIVE YOU A REAL QUESTION.
DO WE KNOW IF IT'S GOT TECHNOLOGY SIMILAR TO WHAT THE APPLICANT IS TELLING US THAT THEY'RE GONNA USE? I DO NOT KNOW THE DETAILS OF THE EQUIPMENT THEMSELVES.
AND I DON'T THINK THAT'S FROM A LAND USE STANDPOINT, WE'RE GETTING INTO THE OPERATIONS PIECE AND REALLY
[01:25:01]
IT'S MORE ABOUT TO THE POINT OF ARE WE CREATING TOO BIG A BUFFER? RIGHT? SO, SO THE LAST THING I WOULD SAY, BASED ON CHRISTINA SEBASTIAN'S RECENT COMMENT WAS THAT IT, I THINK SHE SAID IT DIDN'T OPEN UP THAT MUCH MORE OF AN AREA.AND IS THAT BECAUSE THE OTHER RESTRICTION IS I ONE AND I TWO, AND SO EVEN IF YOU REDUCE IT, I ONE AND I TWO HAS ALREADY GOT IT REDUCED? YES.
WE WERE, WE WERE JUST LOOKING AT I ONE AND I TWO, RIGHT.
SO MAYBE WE SHOULD LOOK AT OTHER, OTHER ZONING CATEGORIES WHERE THIS WOULD MAKE SENSE.
COMMISSIONER CAREY? YEAH, QUICK QUESTION.
I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE I UNDERSTOOD WHAT YOU SAID.
THE COMPLAINTS THAT WE KEEP TALKING ABOUT HERE, UM, THEY WERE, I THINK YOU SAID FROM CITY SERVICES? IS THAT WHAT YOU SAID? YES.
SO THERE ARE OTHER CITY FACILITIES SURROUNDING THE, UM, ANIMAL SHELTER.
AND THE COMPLAINTS CAME FROM OTHER CITY WORKERS AT THOSE FACILITIES.
AND, AND SO THESE COMPLAINTS WEREN'T COMING FROM CITIZENS, HOMEOWNERS? NO, THERE WERE NO COMPLAINTS RECEIVED FROM PUBLIC.
I THINK THE POINT THAT'S BEING MADE IS THAT IF THE EQUIPMENT MALFUNCTIONS AND YOU'RE WITHIN 1400 FEET OF A CREMATORIUM AND YOU WERE A RESIDENT, YOU MIGHT HAVE A BAD EXPERIENCE IN TERMS OF ODOR, SMELL, WHATEVER.
SO, AND I THINK THAT'S WHERE THIS CAME UP FROM.
IF WE PUT IN THE MAINTENANCE REQUIREMENTS AND SOMEBODY BAILS THOSE MAINTENANCE REQUIREMENTS EVEN ON FOR A DAY OR TWO, UNLESS THE REQUIREMENTS ALSO STATE THAT THE MACHINERY CANNOT OPERATE UNTIL IT'S FULLY FUNCTIONAL, UM, SOMEBODY'S GONNA HAVE A BAD EXPERIENCE.
ANY MORE QUESTIONS FOR STAFF TECHNICAL? NO.
DO WE HAVE ANYBODY HERE TO SPEAK ON IT? NO, WE DO NOT.
I'LL CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING SO WE HAVE SOME OPTIONS HERE.
WE CAN CHANGE THE, THE DISTANCING OBVIOUSLY, IF WE WANT.
UH, I THINK GOING DOWN THE PATH OF SAYING WE'RE GONNA OPEN IT UP TO OTHER ZONING CLASSIFICATIONS IS A BIGGER DISCUSSION.
SORRY, I WAS GONNA MAKE A MOTION.
OH, UH, MR. ALI? UH, I THINK DISCUSSION WISE, IT STILL MAKES SENSE TO KEEP IT ALL I WANT.
I LIKE TO, JUST BECAUSE OF THE NATURE OF THE OPERATION, UM, IT GENERATES WASTE THAT DOESN'T SEEM APPROPRIATE IN ANY OTHER LAND USE CATEGORY, UM, TO THE NEIGHBORING CITY, YOU KNOW, BEING A GOOD, GOOD NEIGHBOR, UM, KIND OF DEAL.
UM, IF WE MAINTAIN OUR 2000 BUFFER AND WE BRING THAT IN, WE MIGHT AS WELL.
I BELIEVE EVERYBODY'S AGREED, BUT AS WELL JUST ELIMINATE THAT.
THIS IS NOT, THIS IS NOT HAPPENING IN PLANO.
UM, MY ONLY QUESTION FROM AN ENFORCEMENT PERSPECTIVE, AND I KNOW THAT DOESN'T FALL IN OUR PURVIEW.
HOW DO WE ENFORCE WHATEVER STANDARDS WE PUT INTO THE S U P FROM A MAINTENANCE? IF YOUR EQUIPMENT BREAKS DOWN, YOU CAN'T OPERATE.
WHAT, WHAT, WHAT IS THE MACHINERY WE HAVE TO ENSURE OUTSIDE OF T C E Q, WHICH WE DON'T HAVE CONTROL OVER? I'M ASSUMING IT'S BASED ON A COMPLAINT BASIS AND THEN AN INSPECTION BY PROPERTY STANDARDS.
IT IT COULD BE THROUGH MISDEMEANOR PROSECUTION IF THEY AREN'T MEETING THE REQUIREMENTS OF THEIR S U P OR YEAH.
UM, AS FAR AS T C E Q, THEY WOULD HAVE THEIR OWN COMPLAINT PROCESS.
OR IF IT'S A REPEATED PROBLEM, WE COULD LOOK AT AN INJUNCTION FOR NUISANCE FOR, FOR BEING OUT OF VIOLATION WITH THE S U P.
AND THE INJUNCTION WOULD ACTUALLY STOP THE USE FOR A PERIOD OF, OF TIME ACCORDING TO WHAT A JUDGE WOULD ORDER.
WE COULD WRITE LANGUAGE INTO THE S U P THAT INDICATES TO THE OPERATOR, YOU KNOW, TWO STRIKES YOU'RE OUT OR WHATEVER THE CASE MAY BE.
I MEAN, THE PRESCRIPTIVE, IT MIGHT NEED TO HAVE LANGUAGE THAT TALKS ABOUT, UM, ODOR CONTROL OR, UM, YOU KNOW, OTHER KIND OF NUISANCE ANCE CONTROL SO THAT IT COULD BE PROVED THAT THERE WAS A, A VIOLATION.
MR. RATLIFF, THANK YOU, CHAIRMAN.
UM, I APPRECIATE THE STAFF'S DESIRE TO CONTROL THE ODOR IN PARTICULATE.
UM, BUT WITH THAT SAID, I THINK A BLANKET RADIUS IS
[01:30:02]
A LITTLE BROAD.UM, AND, AND THE REASON I THINK THAT IS, UM, MY QUICK STORY.
MY OFFICE USED TO BE 300 FEET FROM AN OPEN PIT, BARBECUE STAND, BUT WE WERE IMMEDIATELY EAST OF IT.
WE NEVER GOT SMOKE EVER, BUT THE BUSINESSES NORTH OF IT WENT HOME SMELLING LIKE HICKORY EVERY NIGHT,
AND SO MY, MY MY POINT BEING THAT IF I'M TRYING TO LOCATE THIS FACILITY 200 FEET SOUTH OF A RESIDENTIAL AREA WHERE THE PREVAILING WINDS ARE GONNA BLOW OVER THE RESIDENTIAL AREAS ALL DAY, EVERY DAY, NINE MONTHS A YEAR, WELL, MAYBE THE S U P'S NOT APPROPRIATE, BUT IF IT'S THE RESIDENTIAL AREA IS EAST OR WEST OF ME AND THE PREVAILING WINDS ARE NORTH AND SOUTH, IT'S PROBABLY NOT A PROBLEM.
AND THAT'S WHY A BLANKET RADIUS DOESN'T SEEM APPROPRIATE TO ME WHEN WE HAVE AN S U P PROCESS.
IF IT WAS STRAIGHT ZONING, MAYBE.
BUT WE, SINCE WE HAVE S U P ANYWAY, I THINK IT SHOULD BE WRITTEN IN AS A CONSIDERATION, UM, PREVAILING WINDS AND DISTANCE TO ADJACENT RESIDENTIAL AND, OR, OR, BUT I'LL TELL YOU THAT IT'S NOT JUST RESIDENTIAL, IT'S OFFICE BUILDINGS, IT'S COMMERCIAL USE BECAUSE IF THERE'S, IT'S AN ODOR, IT'S AN ODOR, RIGHT? IT DOESN'T MATTER WHETHER YOU LIVE THERE, WORK THERE, PLAY THERE, OR PRAY THERE, IT DOESN'T MATTER.
AND SO WE NEED TO BE, UM, CONSCIOUS OF THE NEIGHBORS REGARDLESS OF THE LAND USE IN MY MIND, UH, WITH THE EXCEPTION OF OTHER LI HEAVY LIGHT INDUSTRIAL NEIGHBORS, WHICH ARE OBVIOUSLY THERE FOR A REASON.
BUT, UM, SO I, I'M, I THINK IF WE CAN BE CLEAR IN THE S U P PROCESS THAT A ADJACENCY IS IMPORTANT, UM, AND IT'S NOT JUST RESIDENTIAL ADJACENCY, IT'S ALL ADJACENCY AND THAT THAT'S A FACTOR IN THE REVIEW OF THE SITE.
UM, I WOULD BE MORE, ACTUALLY MORE COMFORTABLE WITH THAT THAN A BLANKET RADIUS.
OKAY, MR. BROSKY? SO, UH, I WOULD TEND TO AGREE WITH THE COMMISSIONER RATLIFFE ABOUT NOT HAVING A BLANKET RADIUS.
UH, I ALSO, UH, AGREE, UH, WITH TOSSIN CONCERNING THE BREAKDOWN IN THE OPERATIONS AND BUILDING THOSE KIND OF THINGS INTO, UH, THE S U P TO BE SURE THAT, UH, WE'RE DELIVERING FOR A QUALITY PRODUCT OR A QUALITY, UM, SS U P FOR OUR CITIZENS.
SO THAT SAID, UH, I WOULD LIKE TO, UH, MOVE THAT WE TABLE THIS AND ALLOW THE CITY SOME ADDITIONAL TIME TO, UM, TO REFINE WHAT THEY'VE PRESENTED TO US.
I THINK WE'RE OKAY WITH TABLING TO CLARIFY, BUT I THINK WE NEED CLEAR DIRECTION.
IF IT'S JUST REMOVE THE BUFFER, THAT'S AN EASY CHANGE.
IF YOU WANTED SOME ALLOWANCES TO REDUCE THE BUFFER OR OTHER CONSIDERATIONS, THAT'S WHERE WE NEED SOME CLEAR DIRECTION.
SO I WAS GONNA MAKE A SUGGESTION THAT RATHER THAN TABLE, WE CAN ALWAYS REMOVE THE BUFFER AND THEN UNDER THE S U P PROCESS DECIDE, YOU KNOW, IS IT APPROPRIATE, RIGHT? BUT WE WERE TALKING ABOUT BUILDING IN THE LANGUAGE FOR THE BREAKDOWN, AND I WASN'T SURE THAT THAT, WELL, IT'S STILL IN THE ORDINANCE, IS THE, THE REQUIREMENT FOR MAINTENANCE, ET CETERA.
BUT IT DOESN'T SAY THAT IF IT PRODUCES THAT THEY HAVE TO STOP OPERATIONS AS WE WERE TALKING ABOUT EARLIER, THAT'S, AND THAT COULD ALSO BE UNDER AN SS U P, CORRECT? RIGHT.
SO WE DON'T HAVE TO HAVE THAT WRITTEN INTO THIS ORDINANCE.
WE CAN WRITE THAT INTO THE SS U P.
THE ORDINANCE OPENS UP FOR THE S U.
THE S P CAN BE PRESCRIPTIVE YES.
SO, UM, I, I SINCERELY BELIEVE THAT, MR. CHAIRMAN, IF I COULD INTERJECT, WE HAVE A MOTION ON THE THIRD WE DO.
SO I, I GUESS THE QUESTION WOULD BE THEN IF YOU WANT A TABLE, DO WE HAVE A SECOND TO THAT? FAILING A SECOND? I CAN ENTERTAIN ANOTHER MOTION OR WE CAN HAVE ADDITIONAL DISCUSSION.
OH, YOU DO HAVE A QUESTION? OKAY.
SO MY QUESTION IS REGARDING THE SOPS, UM, PROCESS, BECAUSE I HEAR ALL THE COMMISSIONERS REGARD CONCERNS ABOUT HAVING THIS 2000, UM, FEED BUFFER, AND IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE IF WE KIND OF RULE OUT EVERYBODY IN THE CITY, WHY DO WE HAVE IT, RIGHT? SO MY QUESTION IS, DURING THE S O P ADVOCATION PROCESS, ARE WE STILL GOING TO DO THE SAME EXERCISE EVERY TIME? SO STAFF MAY STILL BRING THE SAME REPORT SAYING WE HAVE A REPORT OR COMPLAINT OF FOR 1400 SQUARE FEET, SORRY, 400 FEET.
AND THEN EVERY S O P DO WE HAVE TO DO THE SAME EXERCISE?
[01:35:02]
SO IF THE ORDINANCE DOES NOT HAVE A BUFFER AND WE JUST SAY THEY'RE ALLOWED UNDER THE S U P PROCESS AND L ONE, L TWO, OR L I ONE AND TWO, RIGHT? SO THEN AN APPLICANT COMES FORWARD TO MAKE THE S U P, THEY, THEY APPLY FOR AN SS U P FOR A PERMIT TO OPERATE IN THERE BECAUSE IT'S ALLOWED UNDER THE ZONING IN I ONE AND TWO, AS PART OF STAFF'S DEVELOPMENT OF THAT, WE WILL GET ADDITIONAL INFORMATION AROUND ITS LOCATION TO OTHER PROPERTIES AND EVERYTHING THAT GOES ON AROUND IT.WE'LL GET INFORMATION AROUND THEIR OPERATIONS AND, YOU KNOW, THINGS LIKE THAT.
SO IT'LL BE VERY SIMILAR TO WHAT'S HAPPENED SO FAR, EXCEPT WE'LL BE ABLE TO BE MORE DEFINED IN OUR APPROVAL OR DISAPPROVAL OF THE, OF THE APPLICANT OF THE PROJECT.
I GUESS MY POINT IS THAT I GET THE IDEA THAT IF A SPECIFIC SS O P APPLICATION COMES IN, WE HAVE MORE OF A LOCATION, GEOGRAPHIC LOCATION TO DISCUSS, BUT THE DATA WE HAVE WILL NOT CHANGE.
THE DATA IS STILL THAT WE CAN TELL, UH, AT 1400 FEET, WE CAN STILL SMELL THE ODOR IF, UH, UM, IF THE, THERE'S MALFUNCTION OF THE, OF, UH, THE EQUIPMENT OR IF THERE'S ANYTHING HAPPENS.
HOW DO WE MAKE A DECISION? ARE ARE WE GOING TO GO THROUGH THIS EXERCISE EVERY TIME THERE'S A S O P APPLICATION
I THINK THIS IS A PARTICULAR TYPE OF LAND USE.
WE'RE FROM JUST A PLANNING PERSPECTIVE.
STAFF IS GONNA USE A LOT OF CAUTION, RIGHT? ANYTIME WE'RE TALKING ABOUT ODOR OR FUMES OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT, WE'RE GONNA BE EXTREMELY CAUTIOUS.
AND MY MY GUESS IS THAT IT'LL NOT BE AS FREQUENT EITHER, BUT WE WILL BE COMING BACK AND LOOKING AT AGAIN, WHAT ARE OTHER CITIES DOING? WHAT ARE OTHER S U P STIPULATIONS THAT WE CAN BORROW FROM FROM OTHER CITIES? WHAT ARE THE ADJACENT PROPERTIES? ARE THERE ADDITIONAL PROTECTIONS IN TECHNOLOGY THAT WE CAN IMPLEMENT AT THAT TIME? MAYBE FIVE YEARS DOWN THE ROAD THERE'S SOMETHING NEW THAT WE CAN INCORPORATE NEW TECHNOLOGY.
ALL THAT GETS CONSIDERED WITH THE S U P PROCESS.
AND WE GO THROUGH THAT WITH APPLICANTS TO TRY TO GET THEM AS CLOSE TO APPROVAL AS THEY CAN BEFORE THEY EVEN COME, BEFORE THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION.
WE'RE CONSIDERING ALL THOSE FACTORS AND THAT WILL BE PROVIDED TO YOU IN THE, IN THE WRITE-UPS.
THAT'S THE PROCESS WE GO THROUGH.
MR. IFF, I THINK YOU OR NO, WE'VE GOT MR. OLLIE.
UH, MIKE JUST MADE A GREAT POINT THAT THIS, THE TECHNOLOGY THAT THIS APPLICANT DISCUSSED WITH US IS ALREADY LIGHT YEARS AHEAD OF WHAT
UM, AND I THINK WITHIN THE AMENDMENTS THAT WERE PLACED, UM, WE'VE WRITTEN INTO THE ORDINANCE PROTECTIONS AROUND ODOR AND SMOKE AND VISIBLE PARTICULATES AND WHAT HAVE YOU.
UM, SO WITH THAT IN MIND, I WOULD ACTUALLY, UM, MOVE THAT WE ACCEPT, UH, THE PLANNING DEPARTMENTS, UH, AMENDMENTS AS STIPULATIONS ACCEPT THE 2000 SQUARE FOOT BUFFER.
I'M STRIKING THAT THROUGH LINEAR FEE, UH, 2000 FEET LINEAR FEE.
ALRIGHT, SO WE HAVE A MOTION TO ACCEPT STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION ON THIS ORDINANCE WITH THE EXCEPTION OF THE 2000 FOOT BUFFER.
ALRIGHT, SO WE HAVE A MOTION BY MR. ALI WITH A SECOND BY COMMISSIONER BROSKY TO ACCEPT STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION MINUS THE 2000 FOOT RADIUS.
ANY DISCUSSION OR MORE DISCUSSION, MR. RATLIFF? WOULD THE, WOULD THE AUTHOR CONSIDER ONE SMALL AMENDMENT THAT WE ASK THE STAFF TO CONSIDER ADJACENT USES IN THE SS U P PROCESS AS PART OF THE ORDINANCE THAT WE WRITE IN TO CONSIDER ADJACENT USES, JUST TO MAKE SURE IT'S CLEAR TO THE APPLICANT, NOT TO THE STAFF, BUT THAT IT'S CLEAR TO THE APPLICANT THAT THEY WILL BE NEEDING TO CONSIDER ADJACENT.
IS THAT, I THINK IT'S IN, IF I'M READING THIS CORRECTLY, IN 15.220, IS IT IN THERE ARTICLE THREE? IT TALKS ABOUT THE IMPACT TO ADJACENT PROPERTIES IN CONFORMANCE WITH THE PERFORMANCE STANDARDS IN ARTICLE 24? YES, I THINK THAT COVERS, YES.
OKAY, THEN I WILL RETRACT MY REQUEST.
COMMISSIONER CAREY'S READY TO GO HOME? HE IS ALREADY VOTED.
ALL RIGHT, WE'VE GOT, UH, SEVEN YESES AND ONE NO, THAT, THAT ITEM CARRIES.
AGENDA ITEM NUMBER THREE, PUBLIC
[3. (JR) Public Hearing: Zoning Case 2023-014 - Request to amend Article 8 (Definitions), Article 14 (Allowed Uses and Use Classifications), Article 15 (Use-specific Regulations), and related sections of the Zoning Ordinance to allow commercial drone delivery hubs and to include provisions for advanced air mobility aircraft. Project #ZC2023-014. Tabled on August 21, 2023. Petitioner: City of Plano (Legislative consideration)]
HEARING ZONING CASE[01:40:01]
2023 DASH ZERO 14 REQUEST TO AMEND ARTICLE EIGHT DEFINITIONS.ARTICLE 14 ALLOWED USES AND USE CLASSIFICATIONS.
ARTICLE 15 USE SPECIFIC RES REGULATIONS AND RELATED SECTIONS OF THE ZONING ORDINANCE TO ALLOW COMMERCIAL DRONE DELIVERY HUBS AND TO INCLUDE PROVISIONS FOR ADVANCED AIR MOBILITY AIRCRAFT.
PETITIONER IS CITY OF PLANO, THIS IS FOR LEGISLATIVE CONSIDERATION.
UH, SO THIS IS A REQUEST TO UPDATE THE ZONING ORDINANCE TO, UM, ADD A NEW LAND USE FOR COMMERCIAL DRONE DELIVERY HUBS AND TO UPDATE, UH, TWO DEFINITIONS, UM, TO ALLOW ADVANCED MOBILITY AIRCRAFT.
UH, THE COMMISSION PREVIOUSLY TABLED THIS ITEM AT THE AUGUST 21ST MEETING AFTER DISCUSSION AND, UH, RECOMMENDED, UM, SOME, UH, MODIFICATIONS TO STAFF TO BRING BACK AT THIS MEETING.
UH, PREVIOUS MEETINGS ON THE TOPIC WERE HELD IN JUNE OF THIS YEAR AND IN OCTOBER OF 2022.
SO THE DIRECTION THAT WE RECEIVED AT THE AUGUST 21ST MEETING INCLUDED, UM, REVIEWING THE PROPOSED STANDARDS AS THEY RELATE TO SMALL COMMERCIAL PROPERTIES, REMOVING THE SCREENING REQUIREMENTS AND DETERMINING WHETHER PARKING REDUCTIONS ARE APPROPRIATE FOR THE, UH, COMMERCIAL DRONE DELIVERY HUB.
LAND USE, UH, CORRESPONDENCE RECEIVED FROM STAKEHOLDERS AT THAT MEETING INCLUDED REQUESTS FOR CLARIFICATION OF DEFINITIONS AND CERTAIN STANDARDS, A CONCERN THAT THE STANDARDS MAY SEVERELY LIMIT, UM, WHERE THESE HUBS COULD BE LOCATED, A PREFERENCE FOR LESS PRESCRIPTIVE STANDARDS AND A DESIRE TO HAVE A CONTINUED INVOLVEMENT IN THIS PROCESS.
SO STAFF HAVE REVISED THE PROPOSED STANDARDS AS A RESULT OF THE COMMISSION'S DIRECTION AND THE FEEDBACK FROM STAKEHOLDERS.
THESE CHANGES ARE LIMITED TO THE COMMERCIAL DRONE DELIVERY HUB LAND USE AND NO CHANGES HAVE BEEN MADE TO THE HELIPORT AND HELIPAD DEFINITIONS THAT WERE PRESENTED IN AUGUST.
UH, THE PACKET DOES INCLUDE A COLOR CODED VERSION OF THE STRIKE THROUGH UNDERLYING CHANGES TO HELP YOU GUYS FIGURE OUT WHAT EXACTLY IS DIFFERENT.
SO THE FIRST SIGNIFICANT CHANGE IS A RENAMING OF THE TAKEOFF AND LANDING AREA.
UH, WE ARE NOW REFERRING TO THIS AS THE DRONE STAGING AREA.
UM, THIS WAS DONE, UM, TO AVOID CONFUSION WITH SIMILAR TERMS USED IN INDUSTRY AND BY THE F A A, THIS IS ONE OF THE REQUESTS FROM OUR STAKEHOLDERS.
SO THE DEFINITION NOW INCLUDES A STATEMENT CLARIFYING WHAT ALL SHOULD BE INCLUDED WITHIN THE DEFINED DRONE STAGING AREA.
SO IT'S THE LANDING PAD, ANY CLEAR SAFETY AREAS AROUND THE LANDING PAD, PLUS IF THERE'S ANY DESIRED STORAGE AREA, UM, THAT WOULD NEED TO BE LOCATED IN THE DRONE STAGING AREA TO BE EXEMPTED FROM CERTAIN OPEN STORAGE REQUIREMENTS, WHICH RIGHT WE'LL GET TO LATER.
SO OUR ORDINANCE CURRENTLY REQUIRES, UM, SCREENING FOR ALL OPEN STORAGE THROUGHOUT THE CITY.
SCREENING IS EITHER A, UM, MASONRY WALL OR AN IRRIGATED LIVING SCREEN.
UM, THIS IS A LONG STANDING REQUIREMENT, UM, IN THE CITY.
IT'S MOSTLY INTENDED FOR AESTHETIC REASONS, BUT IT ALSO HELPS TO, UH, CONTAIN STORAGE WITHIN A, IN A DEFINED SPACE AND TO KEEP THAT AREA SECURE.
FOR COMMERCIAL DRONE DELIVERY HUBS.
UH, WE HEARD FROM BOTH THE COMMISSION AND FROM THE STAKEHOLDERS THAT SOLID SCREENING WOULD POSE A NAVIGATIONAL HAZARD TO AIRCRAFT.
UM, SO TO ADDRESS THIS, THE STANDARDS HAVE BEEN REVISED TO EXEMPT UP TO ONE TRAILER AND ONE SHIPPING CONTAINER FROM THE SCREENING REQUIREMENT, PROVIDED THAT THEY ARE LOCATED WITHIN THAT DESIGNATED DRONE STAGING AREA.
UM, TO BE VERY CLEAR, THE ENTIRETY OF THE DRONE STAGING AREA NEVER NEEDS TO BE FULLY SCREENED.
LANDING PADS CONTINUE TO BE EXEMPT FROM THE SCREENING REQUIREMENT.
SO YOU DO NOT NEED TO PUT A WALL AROUND YOUR LANDING PADS IF YOU WANT TO FENCE IT.
SURE, IF YOU DON'T WANT TO FENCE IT, THAT'S OKAY.
THE SCREENING ONLY APPLIES TO OPEN STORAGE AND ONLY IF IT'S ABOVE THAT EXEMPTION OF THE ONE TRAILER AND THE ONE, UM, SHIPPING CONTAINER.
UH, THE INTENT OF THIS IS TO APPLY OUR EXISTING OPEN STORAGE, UM, REQUIREMENTS FAIRLY ACROSS THE CITY AND NOT TO CREATE TOO MUCH CONFUSION FOR OUR STAFF IN THE FIELD WHO ARE HAVING TO ENFORCE OUR ORDINANCES.
UM, ALSO ON THE TOPIC OF SCREENING IS, UH, ROOFTOPS.
SO CURRENTLY WE HAVE REQUIREMENTS, UM, CITYWIDE TO SCREEN, UM, MECHANICAL EQUIPMENT LOCATED ON THE ROOF.
IT NEEDS TO BE SCREENED WHEN IT IS VISIBLE FROM A 0.5 0.5 FEET ABOVE GROUND AT THE PROPERTY LINES.
SO THIS, UH, DIAGRAM ON SCREEN SHOWS THAT, UM, THE BLUE LINE, WHICH IS A LITTLE HARD TO SEE, BUT THE BLUE LINE SHOWS YOUR SITE LINE WITH THE SCREENING THE RED LINE IS WITHOUT.
SO WHAT THIS SHOWS IS THAT YOU ONLY NEED TO SCREEN SOMETHING IF YOU CAN SEE IT FROM THE GROUND
[01:45:01]
AND THAT'S THE CURRENT REQUIREMENT TODAY.SO FOR DRONE DELIVERY HUBS, UH, WE HAVE MOSTLY KEPT, UM, THE RECOMMENDATION THE SAME.
WE HAVE, HOWEVER, ADDED A EXPLICIT EXEMPTION FOR LANDING PADS TO SAY THAT LANDING PADS ARE NOT CONSIDERED ROOF MOUNTED EQUIPMENT THAT NEEDS TO BE SCREENED, BUT SEEING AS THEY'RE FLAT, YOU PROBABLY WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN ABLE TO SEE THEM FROM THE GROUND ANYWAYS.
AND AGAIN, THE INTENT HERE IS TO TAKE OUR EXISTING STANDARDS AND APPLY THEM FAIRLY ACROSS THE CITY.
UH, THE NEXT SET OF CHANGES IS FOR THE DRONE STAGING AREA.
SO FORMALLY TAKE OFF AND LANDING AREA, THIS IS RELATED TO THE SIZE.
UM, INITIALLY WE WERE, UM, SUGGESTING A 5% OF LOT AREAS THE MAXIMUM SIZE, UH, WE'VE BUMPED THAT UP TO 10% OF LOT AREA 10% WAS CHOSEN BECAUSE THAT ALIGNS WITH WHAT WE TYPICALLY INTERPRET.
AN ACCESSORY USED TO BE 10% BUILDING.
UM, WE HAVE, HOWEVER, ALSO THROWN IN A 1000 SQUARE FOOT, UM, FLOOR.
SO IT'S THE GREATER OF 10% OF LOT AREA OR 1000 SQUARE FEET.
AND THAT WOULD BE THE MAXIMUM SIZE FOR AN ACCESSORY DRONE DELIVERY HUB.
UM, AS A PRIMARY USE THERE WOULD BE, UM, NO SUCH LIMITATION.
TALKING ABOUT BUFFERS AGAIN,
SO, UM, WE HEARD THAT DUE TO THE MIXED USE NATURE OF A LOT OF OUR RETAIL CORNERS, THERE WAS CONCERN WITH CERTAIN LAND USES REQUIRING A BUFFER.
UM, SPECIFICALLY RELIGIOUS FACILITIES AND DAYCARE CENTERS.
WE DO SEE THOSE LOCATED IN OUR COMMERCIAL AREAS.
SO THOSE HAVE BEEN REMOVED AS NORTH SENSITIVE LAND USES FOR DRONE DELIVERY HUBS.
UM, THE REVISED STANDARD IN FRONT OF YOU, UH, WOULD SET A NOISE BUFFER ONLY FROM DWELLINGS, UM, RETIREMENT AND SUPPORTIVE HOUSING FACILITIES AND CITY PARKS.
SO WE REMOVED THE RELIGIOUS FACILITIES, THE SCHOOLS AND THE DAYCARE CENTERS, UM, FROM THAT LIST.
UH, FINALLY THERE ARE TWO CHANGES TO THE PARKING REQUIREMENTS.
UM, THE FIRST WAS AN OVERSIGHT IN THE, UH, FIRST ROUND WE NEGLECTED TO INCLUDE A LOADING REQUIREMENT FOR DRONE FACILITIES AS A PRIMARY USE.
SO WE'VE ADDED THAT IN TO BE CONSISTENT TO THE COMMERCIAL AND INDUSTRIAL RATE CURRENTLY IN THE ZONING ORDINANCE.
UM, THE SECOND THING THAT WE HAVE CHANGED IS, UM, THE COMMISSION ASKED US TO INCLUDE PARKING REDUCTIONS.
SO WE HAVE INCLUDED AN ABILITY FOR THE COMMISSION TO REDUCE THE TOTAL SITE PARKING REQUIREMENT BY 10% THROUGH THE APPROVAL OF A SITE PLAN.
UM, AND THIS IS THE SAME, UM, PERCENTAGE THAT IS POSSIBLE TO BE GRANTED, UM, FOR UH, FOR WHAT IS IT FOR STORMWATER, UM, CONSERVATION AS WELL AS FOR THE GRANTING OF EASEMENTS.
UM, THOSE ARE THE TWO OTHER EXAMPLES IN THE ZONING ORDINANCE WHERE THE COMMISSION HAS A DISCRETION TO, UH, REDUCE PARKING AND FOR BOTH IN LIMITS 10%.
SO WE STAYED CONSISTENT WITH THAT NUMBER.
SO IN SUMMARY, THE PROPOSED STANDARDS HAVE BEEN UPDATED IN RESPONSE TO THE DIRECTION FROM THE COMMISSION AND THE FEEDBACK FROM OUR STAKEHOLDERS.
THESE REVISIONS INCLUDE CHANGES TO THE DEFINITIONS, USE SPECIFIC STANDARDS AND PARKING STANDARDS FOR THE COMMERCIAL DRONE DELIVERY HUB LAND USE.
THE STANDARDS ARE INTENDED TO SUPPORT THE MEASURED IMPLEMENTATION OF THESE NEW TECHNOLOGIES IN PLANO TO ADDRESS NOISE IMPACTS ON NEIGHBORING PROPERTIES AND TO MAINTAIN CONSISTENCY AMONG SIMILAR LAND USES AND OTHER STANDARDS ALREADY, UM, IN EXISTENCE IN THE CITY, THE PROPOSED ZONING AMENDMENTS ARE CONSISTENT WITH THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN LAND USE POLICY AND REGIONAL TRANSPORTATION POLICY.
AND THEY'RE ALSO CONSISTENT WITH THE METROPOLITAN TRANSPORTATION PLAN.
STAFF HAS RECEIVED A TOTAL OF FOUR UNIQUE RESPONSES.
THIS INCLUDES TWO DUPLICATE RESPONSES FOR A TOTAL OF SIX, UH, THREE RESPONSES WERE RECEIVED FOR THE AUGUST 21ST MEETING.
THREE RESPONSES WERE RECEIVED FOR THE MEETING TONIGHT.
UM, ALL SIX OF THOSE ARE INCLUDED IN YOUR PACKET.
STAFF RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF THE ZONING ORDINANCE AMENDMENTS AS NOTED IN THE STAFF REPORT AND I'M HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS YOU MIGHT HAVE.
UM, APPRECIATE STAFF'S PATIENCE ON THIS.
WE'RE KIND OF BREAKING NEW GROUND EVEN THOUGH ESSENTIALLY APPROVING THE USE OF AN OLD PARKING LOT PERHAPS.
SO, UM, WE WILL LOOK, THERE ARE SOME QUESTIONS, UM, FOR, UM, THE COMMISSION.
I WOULD, YOU KNOW, JUST LET'S STAY ON POINT, UH, WITH THE TECHNICAL QUESTIONS, UH, AT THIS MOMENT.
SO MR. LYLE IS, YOU HAD MENTIONED THAT THERE'S PROVISIONS WITHIN THE ZONING ORDINANCE THAT ALLOW FOR A 10% PARKING REDUCTION FOR EASEMENTS AND FOR STORMWATER COLLECTION.
I'M PRESUMING WHAT IF BOTH OF THOSE HAVE ALREADY HAPPENED? CAN YOU DO ANOTHER 10% PERCENT
[01:50:01]
REDUCTION OR ARE YOU PRECLUDED BECAUSE ONE OR THE BOTH ALREADY EXIST? THAT MIGHT BE A LEGAL QUESTION.I DON'T KNOW IF YOU CAN STACK MULTIPLE EXEMPTIONS, BUT THAT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT I'VE HAD TO DEAL WITH IN MY CAPACITY, SO I DON'T HAVE AN ANSWER FOR THAT.
SO IF THE COMMISSION'S ALREADY GRANTED A 10% REDUCTION IN PARKING DUE TO STORM WATER AND THEN NOW THERE'S AN APPLICATION FOR ANOTHER 10% REDUCTION DUE TO, AND NOW THERE'S ANOTHER YEAH.
WHAT HAPPENS? WE'RE 30% REDUCTION? WELL, I THINK IF WE DON'T PUT ANY LANGUAGE ADDRESSING IT, THAT WE MAY HAVE SOME ISSUES WITH THAT.
SO WE MAY WANT TO WRITE IN THE MAXIMUM ONLY ONE COULD APPLY.
10% REDUCTION IS APPLIED PER IF, IF THAT'S THE DESIRE OF THE COMMISSION OR THE RECOMMENDATION OF OUR LEGAL COUNSEL OF STAFF.
I'M, I'M JUST SAYING IF, IF YOU DON'T WANT 'EM STACKED BETTER TO BE CLEAR SO THAT WE DON'T HAVE TO RELY ON INTERPRETATIONS.
I MIGHT ALSO ADD THAT IN ALL, IN BOTH OF THE TWO EXISTING, UM, CLAUSES IN THERE, IT'S AT THE DISCRETION OF THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION.
SO IF YOU CHOOSE, IF YOU SEE AN APPLICATION WHERE THEY ALREADY HAVE A 10% REDUCTION, YOU CAN CHOOSE TO DENY THE FURTHER 10% REDUCTION BECAUSE IT'S AT YOUR DISCRETION.
IT'S NOT A, A BUY RIGHT REDUCTION.
AND IT THE SAME IN THIS CASE, IT'S AT THE DISCRETION OF THE COMMISSION.
YOU MAY GRANT A A 10% REDUCTION AND THIS AND THIS ORDINANCE MIRRORS THAT.
I'M FAIRLY CERTAIN IT'S A COPY AND PASTE WITH SOME WORDS CHANGED.
I AM, AND, AND YOU, I BELIEVE YOU CALLED THIS OUT, I HAVEN'T FOUND IT, BUT YOU CALLED OUT THE PROBLEMS WITH TAKING A DRONE HUB AND EXEMPTING A TRAILER AND A STORAGE CONTAINER AND THE LANGUAGE THAT YOU CALL IT OUT WITH IS IDENTICAL TO OUR DEFINITION OF OPEN STORAGE.
AND THEN YOU CALL OUT AND SAY, HEY, THE COMMISSION, I THINK YOU SAY THE COMMISSION SHOULD CONSIDER THIS IS GONNA MAKE THINGS HARD TO ENFORCE.
AND SO I THINK IT'S REALLY DANGEROUS TERRITORY AND THERE'S OTHER PROVISIONS WITHIN OUR ZONING ORDINANCE THAT ALREADY DO THIS THAT JUST, I MEAN YOU YOU SAID FAIRLY ACROSS THE CITY TWICE YOU SAID AESTHETICS, UH, YOU SAID EQUAL ENFORCEMENT.
LIKE WHEN WE START CARVING OUT, HEY YOU, YOU CAN HAVE A TRAILER BECAUSE YOU'RE DOING THIS BUT YOU CAN'T HAVE A TRAILER BECAUSE YOU'RE DOING THIS.
THIS JUST IS REALLY BAD POLICY AND I DON'T HAVE A SOLUTION FOR RIGHT HERE, RIGHT NOW, BUT IF IT'S OPEN STORAGE, IT SHOULD BE OPEN STORAGE.
AND IF WE'RE SPECIFICALLY DEFINING OPEN STORAGE AS CONTAINERS, TRAILERS AND SO FORTH AND THEN WE GO, OH, BECAUSE YOU'RE DOING THIS, YOU CAN HAVE THAT STUFF.
IT JUST DOESN'T ALIGN WITH GOOD POLICY IN MY OPINION.
AND YOU POINTED THAT OUT TOWARDS, I'M AGREEING WITH YOU.
DO YOU HAVE ANY MORE QUESTIONS?
UM, I HAVE A COUPLE QUESTIONS BUT I WANNA KIND OF CONCUR OF UH, WHAT, UH, COMMISSIONER LYLE SAID THAT BOTH, BOTH POINTS ALSO ON MY NOTES TOO.
I DON'T, I ASKED YOU IF YOU CAN TAKE THOSE EXCEPTIONS OUT 'CAUSE I DON'T THINK THOSE EXPRESSIONS ARE NECESSARY.
WHY DO WE GIVE THEM EXCEPTIONS FOR THOSE THAT ARE POTENTIALLY WILL HARM OR, OR THERE WAS A REASON WHY WE HAD ORDINANCE THERE AND WHY WE'RE CARVING OUT FOR EXCEPTIONS, RIGHT? HAVE WE LOOK AT THE ORIGINAL OR ORDINANCE? WHY DO WE HAVE RULES FOR THOSE, RIGHT? WHY DO WE HAVE TO PUT AN EXCEPTION THERE JUST TO ALLOW THE DRONE TO FLY IN? SO MY QUESTION IS, CAN WE ELIMINATE THOSE EXCEPTIONS? JUST, YOU KNOW, ALLOW THEM USE BUT FOLLOW THE REGULAR ORDINANCE, RIGHT? FOLLOW THE REGULAR RULES OF THE LAND USE.
UH, TO ANSWER THE QUESTION, WE COULD REMOVE THE EXCEPTIONS AND GO BACK TO WHAT WE PRESENTED ON AUGUST 21ST.
I I'M JUST SAYING THE TWO THAT MR. LYLE ANSWERED 'CAUSE THAT'S ON MY NOTES TOO.
AND I HAD A THIRD QUESTION ABOUT THE ROOF ALSO IS REGARDING THE EXCEPT EXCEPTION OF THE, UM, LANDING PAD ON THE ROOFTOP, RIGHT? WE ALREADY HAVE THE REGULAR ORDINANCE OF HAVING A, UM, I CAN'T REMEMBER WHAT'S THE TERM? THE, THE, THE WALL.
SO SINCE IT'S, IF IT'S ON THE ROOF, YOU CAN'T SEE IT ANYWAY.
[01:55:01]
THE LANDING PAD, NOW WE CAN SEE IT RIGHT? THEN YOU HAVE NO CONTROL TO THAT BECAUSE YOU ACCEPTED IT.YOU, YOU, YOU PUT IT IN AN EXCEPTION.
SO I SAY CAN WE REMOVE THAT? SO THAT'S THREE THINGS I WOULD ASK IF I MAY TO CONSIDER.
AND MR. ROCK WOULD BE, CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, BUT I BELIEVE THE DIRECTION FROM THE COMMISSION LAST MEETING WHEN WE PROPOSED NO EXCEPTIONS WERE IT NEEDS AN EXCEPTION.
SO WE WROTE THAT INTO THE COURT, INTO THE ORDINANCE PER THE COMMISSION'S DIRECTION.
UH, COMMISSIONER OLLIE, UH, AGREE.
UM, ALTHOUGH, UH, SLIGHT JOKE, I WAS WONDERING WHY IT WAS 5.5 FEET FROM THE PROPERTY LINE.
IT ALMOST MAKES IT, UH, 5.5 FEET FROM THE PROPERTY LINE ALMOST MAKES IT SUGGEST THAT FOLKS WHO ARE TALLER THAN 5.5 FEET THEIR EYES WOULD BURN
BUT I HAVE A QUESTION ON THE, THE EXCEPTION FOR THE TRAILER IS WHAT'S THE REASON FOR THAT IS JUST PROXIMITY AND ACCESS TO YOUR EQUIPMENT.
UM, SO WITH THE EXCEPTION FOR THE TRAILER AND VERY SPECIFICALLY WE IN THE ORDINANCE LANGUAGE, IT'S NARROWED DOWN THE WORD THAT THE CITY USES IS A SPECIAL VEHICLE AND IT'S A SPECIAL VEHICLE, A TRAILER UNDER 22 FEET.
SO WE, WHEN WE DISCUSSED THIS WITH OUR PROPERTY STANDARDS DIVISION, THEY WANTED US TO REALLY HONE IN ON EXACTLY THE THING THAT WE WANT TO EXEMPT.
SO WE LANDED ON THOSE 22 FOOT TRAILERS UP TO 22 FOOT TRAILERS AND UM, A SINGLE SHIPPING CONTAINER THAT WAS BASED OFF OF WHAT WE HAVE OBSERVED IN THE FIELD OF HOW THESE OPERATORS ARE CURRENTLY CONDUCTING THEIR BUSINESSES AND, UM, WHAT THEIR KIND OF NEAR TERM EXPANSIONS LOOK LIKE.
SO ON SCREEN RIGHT NOW, UM, TOP PHOTO, THAT'S WING AVIATION UP IN, UM, THAT IS THEIR LITTLE ELM LOCATION.
SO THEY HAVE JUST A, UH, THEY HAVE A VERY SMALL, UM, SHIPPING CONTAINER, PROBABLY ONLY ABOUT A QUARTER SIZE.
UM, I HAD A CHANCE TO VISIT THEIR NEW FRISCO LOCATION.
THEY HAVE A FULL-SIZE SHIPPING CONTAINER AND ONE GENERATOR ON A TRAILER.
AND THAT'S SUFFICIENT FOR, I BELIEVE IT'S 18 DRONES.
UH, THEY HAVE OPERATING AT THAT SITE.
AND IN SPEAKING WITH WING, THEY DIDN'T THINK THEY WOULD NEED MORE THAN A SINGLE TRAILER AND A SINGLE SHIPPING CONTAINER.
THEY'RE USING THE CONTAINER FOR STORAGE, UM, OF THEIR AIRCRAFT AT NIGHT.
UM, THE BOTTOM PHOTO, UH, THAT IS DRONE UP AND THEY ALSO, UM, THEY USE A SINGLE GENERATOR ON A TRAILER AND THEN THEY UM, I BELIEVE THEIR STORAGE IS UM, THEY BRING TO ANOTHER FACILITY.
UM, SO THEY JUST HAVE LIKE A, A VAN PARKED ON SITE.
SECOND QUESTION, AND THIS IS MORE CORRECT MY MEMORY, UM, WHEN WE TALKED ABOUT SCREENING THE LAST TIME, IT WASN'T NECESSARILY ON EXEMPTING THE NEED FOR SCREENING.
IT WAS MORE AROUND THE TYPE OF SCREENING, UM, A MASONRY WALL OR A LIVING SCREEN.
UM, I THINK MY CONCERN, IF I REMEMBER CLEARLY WAS, WAS NOT PERFORATED ENOUGH TO ALLOW FOR AIRFLOW AND WHAT HAVE YOU, BUT IT WASN'T NECESSARILY TO ELIMINATE SCREENING, IT WAS JUST TO, FOR THIS KIND OF USE, IS THERE AN ALLOWANCE FOR A PERFORATED GATES AND WHAT HAVE YOU, MORE SECURITY MINDED VERSUS AESTHETICS.
UM, BUT IT FEELS LIKE WE'VE GONE AWAY FROM THERE THAT WE ARE JUST THINKING OF ELIMINATING THE SCREENING REQUIREMENT.
A AGAIN, I COULD CLARIFY 'CAUSE I THINK THERE MIGHT'VE BEEN SOME CONFUSION AT THE LAST DISCUSSION, AND CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, MR. ROCK, BUT THE PROPOSAL WAS NOT TO SCREEN THE LANDING PADS AND EVERYTHING ALTOGETHER.
IT WAS JUST TO SCREEN THE STORAGE CONTAINER AND THE TRAILER.
AND I THINK THE COMMISSION MIGHT HAVE GOT CONFUSED THAT WE WERE RECOMMENDING SCREENING OF THE LANDING PADS AND THE ENTIRE SITE.
THAT WAS NOT THE PROPOSAL LAST TIME.
SO IF THAT'S WHAT THE COMMISSION WANTS IS TO SCREEN JUST THE STORAGE AREAS, THAT WAS WHAT WE WERE PROPOSING LAST TIME, WE'RE HAPPY TO, TO BRING THAT BACK.
ARE YOU DONE MR. ROSS? UM, LAST QUESTION ON SENSITIVE USES.
UH, I'M, I'M STILL TRYING TO, AND I DUNNO HOW TO POSE THIS.
THE REASON WHY DAYCARE CENTERS RELIGIOUS FACILITIES AND SCHOOLS ARE CONSIDERED SENSITIVE IS DUE TO ANNOY DISTURBANCE, I PRESUME CONCERN.
UM, CONSIDERING THAT THE TAKEOFF AND LANDING OF THE OPERATIONS OF THESE VEHICLES WILL GENERATE
[02:00:01]
NOISE, I'M TRYING TO UNDERSTAND WHY WE ARE REMOVING THEM AS A SENSITIVE USE.YOU KNOW, THE, THE, THE NUISANCE DOES NOT DISAPPEAR.
SO WHAT'S DRIVING THAT? SO DRIVING THAT WAS THE, UM, CONCERN FROM THE COMMISSION AROUND, UM, AS I SAID, PARTICULARLY OUR NEIGHBORHOOD CORNERS AND WE'RE INCREASINGLY SEEING, UM, THOSE STRIP CENTERS DIVERSIFYING THEIR LAND USE BEYOND RETAIL AND RESTAURANTS.
SO IF WE WERE TO CONTINUE HAVING THIS 150 FOOT, UM, BUFFER REQUIREMENT, YOU MIGHT THEN ELIMINATE AN ENTIRE RETAIL CORNER JUST BECAUSE THEY HAVE A DAYCARE.
UM, SO WE'VE HEARD THAT THERE'S THAT CONCERN THAT WE MIGHT BE FULLY EXCLUDING SOME AREAS OF THE CITY BY HAVING THOSE USES LISTED AS SENSITIVE.
WHEREAS WITH RESIDENCES WE'RE FAIRLY CERTAIN THOSE AREN'T GONNA SHOW UP IN A SHOPPING CENTER.
ASK QUESTION, UH, WHAT'S THE THRESHOLD THAT DESIGNATED DESIGNATES THE SITE AS A COMMERCIAL DRONE IN FACILITY? SO IF KIND OF PICKING ON BILL'S POINT, IF I OPERATE, I DUNNO, WASTE OIL MANAGEMENT, I'M MAKING STUFF UP AND I PUT TWO DRONES THERE.
DO I GET ALL THE EXEMPTIONS ON SCREENING ON WHATEVER ELSE WE'RE PROPOSING? IS THERE A THRESHOLD THAT WOULD, UM, HELP US JUDGE ACCURATELY THAT THIS IS THE PRIMARY USE FOR THAT SITE? SO, UM, THE EXEMPTION WOULD APPLY ONLY TO WHATEVER IS ON THE SITE PLAN AS THE DESIGNATED DRONE STAGING AREA.
IF IT'S NOT BEING USED AS A DRONE STAGING AREA, THEN WE COULD EFFECTIVELY SAY THAT THE LAND USE HAS BEEN DISCONTINUED.
UM, AND IT WOULD NOT BE, I BELIEVE THE LANGUAGE IN THERE IS IT HAS TO BE ASSOCIATED WITH A DRONE DELIVERY HUB.
SO IF THE DRONE DELIVERY HUB IS NO LONGER THERE, THEN IT'S NO LONGER EXEMPT.
UM, AND OUR DEFINITION, WHAT QUALIFIES AS A DRONE DELIVERY HUB? TWO DRONES.
UM, FIRST OF ALL, THANKS Y'ALL, Y'ALL, Y'ALL HEARD A LOT OF OUR CONCERNS.
MINE WERE PRIMARILY ABOUT SMALL BUSINESSES.
UM, AND, UH, IT LOOKS LIKE, AND READING THROUGH THE LETTERS THAT I, THAT YOU'VE GOT IN THE PACKET FROM THE DRONE OPERATORS AND TRYING TO LOOK AT THE DATES ON THOSE AND THE REVISIONS THAT YOU MADE, I, I COULDN'T FOLLOW IT EXACTLY CHRONOLOGICALLY.
AND SO MY, MY CLARIFYING QUESTION IS, IT APPEARS TO ME THAT YOU HAVE TAKEN ALL OF THEIR FEEDBACK AND TRIED TO INCORPORATE THE VAST MAJORITY OF THEIR CONCERNS OR AT LEAST ADDRESS THE VAST MAJORITY OF THEIR CONCERNS.
IS THAT A FAIR STATEMENT? THAT'S A FAIR STATEMENT.
SO HAVE YOU GOTTEN ANY MORE FEEDBACK FROM THE DRONE OPERATORS SPECIFICALLY RELATED TO THE SMALL SITES? THE SMALL COMMERCIAL OPERATORS? THE CORNER PAD WHERE THE THOUSAND FOOT IS A THOUSAND FEET ENOUGH ON A SMALL SITE TO OPERATE A HOWEVER MANY DRONE OPERATION FOR A, UM, FOOD DELIVERY OR WHATEVER HAVE, UM, 'CAUSE I, I UNDERSTAND THE CONSISTENCY WITH THE OTHER ORDINANCES, BUT IS A THOUSAND FEET ADEQUATE IF IT IS A SMALL SITE TO ACTUALLY RUN A DRONE OPERATION FOR SURE.
SO, UM, A THOUSAND FEET WOULD BE, UM, HALF OF THE YELLOW BOX ON THIS SCREEN.
UM, THIS AGAIN IS THE OPERATION OUT IN THE ELM.
UM, THIS LOCATION, I THINK IS ABOUT 1900 SQUARE FEET FOR THEIR DRONE STAGING AREA.
WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A THOUSAND SQUARE FEET, I DON'T KNOW HOW USEFUL IT WOULD BE, BUT WHEN YOU LOOK AT IT'S THE GREATER OF 10% OR A THOUSAND YEAH.
FOR A THOUSAND SQUARE FEET, WHERE THAT'S A VERY SMALL LOT FOR IT TO BE 10% OF THE LOT AGREE.
THAT'S 10,000 SQUARE FOOT LOCK.
UM, I BELIEVE IN YOUR PACKET, THERE'S A MOCK-UP GRAPHIC THAT I DID OF A SAMPLE SMALL SITE, AND THEY CAN BARELY FIT A 300, UM, OR 600 SQUARE FOOT LANDING AREA ON THERE.
AND THAT'S USING THAT 10% EXEMPTION FOR PARKING.
SO THERE'S JUST SO MANY SITE CONSTRAINTS THAT IT GETS DIFFICULT ON THOSE SMALL SITES.
WELL, YEAH, THAT, THAT'S, THAT WAS GONNA BE MY NEXT QUESTION.
IS IT, IT SEEMS TO ME YOUR AVERAGE FAST FOOD PAD SITE IS A, AN ACRE GIVE OR TAKE.
UM, SO A THOUSAND FOOT'S NOT GONNA COME INTO PLAY EXCEPT ON THE 10TH.
I MEAN, THAT'S A REALLY SMALL, UM, PHOTO MAT FOR THOSE THAT ARE OLD ENOUGH TO REMEMBER 'EM.
SMALL, REALLY SMALL, YOU KNOW, COFFEE SHOP OR SOMETHING.
SO, UM, BUT THAT'S, THAT WAS MY QUESTION IS WHERE THE A THOUSAND FEET CAME FROM AND SO
[02:05:01]
IS THE, AND MAKING SURE THAT WAS ENOUGH.'CAUSE WE'RE GONNA SET A FLOOR, LET'S MAKE SURE IT'S A FUNCTIONAL FLOOR.
I MEAN, THAT'S FIVE PARKING PLACES, BASICALLY.
AND SO, BUT YOU'RE CONFIDENT HAVING TALKED TO THEM, THAT THAT WOULD BE FOR A REALLY SMALL SITE, ADEQUATE FOR A TWO OR THREE DRONE OPERATION, IF THAT'S WHAT THEY NEEDED ON A SMALL SITE.
I BELIEVE THAT THEY WERE, THEIR KIND OF SWEET SPOT WAS A LITTLE OVER THAT, UM, IN THE 1,100, 1,200.
I JUST WANTED, I WANTED TO SPECIFICALLY CALL IT, IT LOOKS LIKE YOU HAVE REALLY BEEN OVER BACKWARDS TO MAKE SURE THESE SMALL SITES, THESE SMALL BUSINESSES, UM, HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY IF THEY CHOSE CHOOSE, UM, TO HAVE A DRONE OPERATION.
I WANNA SAY I REALLY APPRECIATE THE TIME AND EFFORT YOU'RE PUTTING INTO THIS, UH, ON BEHALF OF THE CITY.
UM, ON THE FACILITIES THAT YOU'VE LOOKED AT SO FAR.
UH, AS FAR AS THE OPERATE, NOT THE ZONE, OP, UH, DRONING OP, THE DRONE OPERATIONS MM-HMM.
SO, I MEAN, THE LARGEST ONE WOULD BE, UM, AMAZON PRIME'S FACILITY DOWN IN COLLEGE STATION, WHERE IT'S A FULL WAREHOUSE.
UM, THEY ARE NOT VERY SUCCESSFUL THOUGH.
THEY'RE BARELY DOING ANY OPERATIONS IN TERMS OF THE MOST, IN THE LARGEST OPERATION IS ACTIVE.
THAT WOULD BE, UM, WING WHO'S, AGAIN, THEY'RE UP IN, UH, FRISCO AND LITTLE ELM AS WELL AS OUT IN VIRGINIA.
SO WHAT, UH, WHAT LOCATIONS WERE THEY OPERATING? LIKE A C V S OR A WALMART OR, YEAH, SO IN, UH, IN LITTLE ELM IT'S WITH A WALGREENS AND FRISCO STATION.
THEY'RE ON AN ABANDONED, UH, HELIPAD.
AND THAT'S THEIR, THEY'RE ASSOCIATED WITH A BUNCH OF DIFFERENT BUSINESSES.
THEIR NEW LOCATION IS AT A WALMART SUPERCENTER.
AND THEY'RE GOING TO, THEY HAVE AN APPLICATION WITH THE F A A RIGHT NOW TO ADD ANOTHER 23, UH, WALMART SUPERCENTER LOCATIONS IN D F W ON THE WALMART LOCATIONS.
WHAT, UM, YOU TALK ABOUT THE CURRENT AND NEAR TERM EXPANSIONS, RIGHT? WHEN I VISITED WITH DRONE UP, UM, MY INTERPRETATION OF WHERE THEY WERE CURRENTLY, UM, AND EVEN WHERE THEY MIGHT BE GOING NEAR TERM, WERE NOT GONNA BE ADEQUATE TO WHERE THEY'RE EXPECTING TO GO LONG TERM.
UH, WOULD THAT BE WHAT YOU'VE HEARD FROM THEM AS WELL? SO, I MEAN, THE, THE INDUSTRY IS CHANGING CONSTANTLY.
UM, I MEAN, LIKE TALKING TO AGAIN, WING, A YEAR AGO, THEY WERE VERY ENTHUSIASTIC ABOUT ROOFTOP OPERATIONS.
THAT'S KIND OF DROPPED OFF THEIR RADAR 'CAUSE IT'S SO RESTRICTIVE FROM A BUILDING CODE PERSPECTIVE.
UM, THE LAST TIME I SPOKE, UH, WITH WING ON SITE IN FRISCO, THEY'RE LOOKING AT A NETWORK APPROACH.
SO THEY WOULD HAVE THEIR LARGE HUB SITES WHERE THEY COULD DISPATCH A DRONE FROM, BUT THE DRONE COULD THEN TRAVEL TO ANOTHER LOCATION THAT MIGHT NOT HAVE A HUB.
SAME AS, YOU KNOW, A UBER EATS DRIVER.
SO THE DRONE WOULD GO TO ANOTHER BUSINESS, PICK UP THE GOODS, AND THEN GO FROM THERE.
SO THE BUSINESS WOULDN'T, WOULDN'T EVEN NEED TO HAVE A DRONE HUB IN ORDER TO PARTICIPATE IN DRONE DELIVERIES, UM, IN THEIR KIND OF FUTURE CASE SCENARIOS.
SO HAVE YOU TALKED TO DRONE UP RATHER THAN WING? UH, YES, WE HAVE SPOKEN WITH DRONE OFFICER.
SO, RELATED TO MY QUESTION ABOUT THE EXPANSIONS FOR THEM MM-HMM.
AND THE BASIS FOR THAT IS, UH, I FEEL LIKE WE'RE LOOKING AT A VERY NEW TECHNOLOGY AND I'M CONCERNED THAT THE PEOPLE AT THE FRONT OF THIS NEW TECHNOLOGY, WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT CURRENT AND NEAR TERM OPERATIONS, THAT'S NOT WHERE THEY'RE LOOKING.
THEY'RE LOOKING LONG-TERM OPERATIONS.
AND IN ORDER TO MAKE LONG-TERM OPERATIONS SUCCESSFUL, WE'VE GOTTA BE CONSIDERING THEIR EXPANSIONS, NOT JUST NOW IN THE NEXT YEAR OR TWO, BUT WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE WHEN THEY'RE FULL-BLOWN OPERATIONS.
AND THAT WE COULD REALLY BE LIMITING THE CAPACITY TO WHAT THEY COULD DELIVER, ESPECIALLY IF THE F A A PERMITS THEM TO BE ABLE TO GO BEYOND, UH, SOME OF THE DISTANCES THAT THEY'RE CURRENTLY OPERATING AT.
[02:10:01]
SO MY BIGGEST CONCERN IS THAT WE GET DRONE DELIVERY IN PLANO, BUT THAT DRONE DELIVERY, IT RINGS PLANO AND THAT ALL OF THOSE SALES THAT WOULD BE OCCURRING AT THOSE LOCATIONS IN PLANO, WE NO LONGER COLLECT ANY OF THOSE SALES TAX BECAUSE WE'VE BEEN SO PURPOSELY PRESCRIPTIVE THAT WE HAVE BASICALLY PUSHED THEM OUT OF OUR CITY.AND SO WHEN I, WHEN I LOOK AT THINGS, UH, THAT THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT IN HERE AS RELATES, RELATES TO DO QUESTION, DO YOU HAVE A QUESTION FOR DREW? GETTING THERE?
SO LET'S, WE'VE BEEN AS GUILTY OF DESIGNING THIS THING AS THEY WILL HAVE BEEN AND ASKING, I THINK, FOR THEIR OPINION ABOUT WHETHER WE'RE DOING THIS.
I I THINK WE'RE GETTING WAY, WAY OFF OFF BASE HERE.
WE EITHER LIKE WHAT THEY'VE GIVEN US OR WE SAY REMOVE THE 10% AND A THOUSAND FOOT, LET 'EM OPERATE WHEREVER THEY WANT.
UH, I THINK WE JUST NEED TO BE MORE DECISION ORIENTED TONIGHT VERSUS A LOT OF QUESTIONS.
'CAUSE THEY'RE EVERYTHING HERE.
MAYBE WE MISUNDERSTOOD THE STORAGE DISCUSSION.
I THINK WE NEED TO DECIDE, MAKE A DECISION ON WHAT WE'RE GONNA DO WITH THIS THING AND MOVE ON.
WE CAN ALWAYS UPDATE IT IF WE PUT THE DESCRIPTIONS IN AND IT'S THEN SOMEBODY COMES TO US, AN OPERATOR AND SAYS, WE JUST CAN'T OPERATE BECAUSE OF THIS, THEN WE HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO GET RID OF SOMETHING THEN.
BUT WE'VE ALWAYS KIND OF OPERATED A LITTLE BIT UNDER A CAUTION MOVE CAUTIOUSLY,
UM, I'M NOT NECESSARILY OPPOSED TO WHAT YOU'RE SAYING THAT MAYBE WE ARE BEING TOO.
AND IF WE ARE, THEN WE AGREE RIGHT NOW, HEY, WE'RE GONNA GET RID OF SOME OF THIS STUFF.
UNDERSTANDING THAT IT, IT DOES CREATE A LITTLE BIT OF THE WILD WEST, UH, FOR THIS KIND OF OPERATION.
SO IF WE HAVE, IF, IF THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IS, HEY, I WANNA DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT, THAT'S GREAT.
BUT LET'S, LET'S FOCUS QUESTIONS ON HIM, NOT ON IDEAS OR ANYTHING ELSE, BUT ON, IS THERE A PROBLEM WITH ELIMINATING THAT? AND IF HE SAYS, WELL, UNDER THE ORDINANCE, IT CREATES A CHALLENGE HERE.
THAT'S A GOOD TECHNICAL QUESTION.
SO WHEN I, MR. RATLIFF ASKED THIS QUESTION ABOUT, UH, ADDRESSING THE ISSUES THAT WERE PROVIDED BY THE OPERATORS, RIGHT? I LOOK AT THE DATES ON THOSE LETTERS.
SEPTEMBER 29TH, AND I'M NOT SURE HOW THE OTHER ONE IS DATED OCTOBER 2ND, BUT, UM, I, I DON'T KNOW HOW WE COULD HAVE ADDRESSED THOSE MAYBE FROM LAST YEAR.
SO, SO I'M NOT SURE HOW WE COULD HAVE ADDRESSED THOSE BECAUSE WE WOULD'VE HAD THE PACKET BY THEN.
IT JUST DOESN'T SEEM LIKE THERE'S ENOUGH TIME TO, TO HAVE DONE THAT.
AND THAT'S MY ONLY, SO YOUR QUESTION IS, DID, DID WE INCLUDE THAT AND MR. RATLIFF ASKED THAT, DID WE INCLUDE THE OPERATOR'S REQUEST IN HERE IN SOME OF THIS LANGUAGE? THAT WAS A FAIR QUESTION, AND I THINK HE ANSWERED IT.
SO TO ANSWER THE, I GUESS THE UNDERLYING QUESTION ABOUT THE, UM, THE SIX RESPONSES RECEIVED, THE THREE, UM, THREE WERE, WERE RECEIVED ON FRIDAY.
SO THE TWO THAT ARE DATED THE 29TH, THE ONE THAT'S DATED THE SECOND WAS RECEIVED ON FRIDAY.
UH, TODAY'S MEETING, THE PREVIOUS THREE WERE ALL RECEIVED, UM, BY THE FRIDAY BEFORE THAT, UM, PUBLIC HEARING BEFORE THE 21ST.
AND, UM, AFTER THE PUBLIC HEARING ON THE 21ST, UH, STAFF DID CONTACT, UM, ALL THREE OF THE OPERATORS IN D F W.
SO WING DRONE UP AND FLY TRUCKS, AS WELL AS THE TWO INDUSTRY GROUPS THAT PROVIDED LETTERS.
UH, WE DID PROVIDE OPPORTUNITY TO, UH, SPEAK WITH STAFF AND EVERY TIME THAT WE HAD A DRAFT, UM, OF STANDARDS, WE DID FORWARD THOSE TO THEM TO PROVIDE US WITH FEEDBACK AND COMMENTS SO WE COULD FURTHER REFINE WHAT WE WERE ULTIMATELY BRINGING TODAY.
SO MY LAST QUESTION, CAN YOU, CAN YOU ELABORATE ON ANY DETAILS THAT THEY SUGGESTED THAT JUST WERE NOT DOABLE FOR US? SO THE, IF YOU'RE SPEAKING SPECIFICALLY ABOUT DRONE UP, UH, ALL THREE OF THEM, BUT, UH, DRONE UP IS THE ONE THAT I'VE, YEAH.
SO, SO THE DRONE UP RESPONSE WAS RECEIVED, UM, AT NOON ON FRIDAY AFTER WE HAD FINISHED THE REPORT AND MADE THE PACKET SO I COULD NOT MAKE ANY FURTHER CHANGES TO WHAT WAS IN THE PACKET.
UM, WING, THE REASON WHY I KEEP BRINGING UP WING IS BECAUSE THEY HAVE
[02:15:01]
BEEN EXTREMELY RESPONSIVE IN TERMS OF THEIR FEEDBACK.UM, AND, UM, TO THE BEST OF MY ABILITY WITH THE, WITH WHAT WAS RECEIVED AT THE AUGUST 21ST MEETING, WE'VE TRIED TO INCLUDE, UM, RESPONSES TO THOSE CONCERNS IN THIS SET.
UM, SPECIFICALLY THAT, UM, THE UPDATE TO THE NAME OF THE TAKEOFF AND LANDING AREA BEING CHANGED, THE ADDITION OF THE CLARIFICATION STATEMENTS IN SOME AREAS SUCH AS THE, UM, UH, TELECOMMUNICATION, TELECOMMUNICATIONS ANTENNAS, THAT'S IN A SEPARATE SECTION.
THAT WAS ONE OF THE CONCERNS BROUGHT UP.
SO WE HAVE TRIED TO ADD THOSE CLARIFYING STATEMENTS INTO THE ORDINANCE WHERE POSSIBLE.
AND, UH, I'VE READ THROUGH SOME OF THEIRS AND I SEE THAT, UH, SOME OF THE COMMENTS THEY'VE MADE CONCERNING TAKEOFF AND LANDING OF THE DRONES, UH, AND IT BEING A PROBLEM TO HAVE THE, HAVING IT SURROUNDED, WE'VE ADDRESSED.
UM, AGAIN, I, I, I REALLY, I'M HOPEFUL FOR THIS.
I'M JUST, UH, WANTING TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE NOT BEING TOO PRESCRIPTIVE.
SO THANK YOU VERY MUCH, COMMISSIONER CAREY.
YEAH, A A QUICK QUESTION AND I WILL HAVE SOME COMMENTS WHEN WE'RE DONE WITH QUESTIONS.
UM, I, I DO HAVE A QUICK QUESTION.
I HAVE SOME COMMENTS WHEN WE'RE DONE WITH QUESTIONS.
MY QUESTION IS THIS, UM, WOULD WE BE THE FIRST OF ONE OF, OR ONE OF THE FIRST COMMUNITIES IN TEXAS TO, TO, TO WRITE ORDINANCE? WE WOULD BE THE FIRST TO HAVE THESE STANDARDS IN OUR MAIN ORDINANCE.
COLLEGE STATION HAS A VERY SMALL SET OF STANDARDS, UM, IN A PD FOR THE, UM, AMAZON PRIME AIR LOCATION.
BUT WE WOULD BE THE FIRST WITH STANDARDS IN OUR ORDINANCE.
SO I THINK WE'VE GOT THE INFORMATION WE NEED.
UM, AS I SAID, MOST OF THE STUFF THAT'S IN HERE HAS COME FROM OUR FEEDBACK.
UM, AND FROM, UH, SOUNDS LIKE THE OPERATORS GAVE YOU A LOT OF GOOD FEEDBACK AS WELL.
UH, I'M, I'M SURE THEY WOULD PREFER TO NOT HAVE A STANDARD AND, AND JUST DO YOU KNOW WHAT THEY WANT, BUT WE'VE SEEN THAT WE'RE A CITY THAT DOESN'T REALLY OPERATE THAT WAY.
SPECIFIC QUESTION, DO YOU BELIEVE THAT WE'RE GONNA HAVE THE FIRST WRITTEN STANDARD BECAUSE WE'RE FIRST, OR DO YOU BELIEVE WE'RE GONNA HAVE THE FIRST WRITTEN STANDARD BECAUSE ALL THE OTHER MUNICIPALITIES BELIEVE THAT THEY'RE PREEMPTED BY THE PREEMPTION LAWS AND THE F A A AND SO THEY'RE NOT EVEN MESSING WITH WRITING IT.
SO, WHEN STAFF, UH, LOOKED INTO OTHER COMMUNITIES IN TEXAS AND HOW THEY'RE APPROACHING DRONES, THERE WERE KIND OF, I GUESS YOU COULD SAY THREE KIND OF PATHS HAVING A DEFINED LAND USE FOR DRONE DELIVERY HUBS.
THE OTHER PATH THAT A LOT OF MUNICIPALITIES HAVE TAKEN IS TO SAY THAT THIS IS NOT A LAND USE.
IT FUNCTIONS THE SAME WAY AS ANY OTHER DELIVERY OPERATION.
IT'S JUST PART OF THE OPERATION OF A RETAIL STORE.
UM, IT'S NOT ITS OWN SEPARATE THING, IT'S JUST PART OF OTHER LAND USES.
THE OTHER SIDE OF THAT IS THE MUCH MORE RESTRICTIVE PATH THAT, UM, THE COLONY HAS TAKEN.
I BELIEVE THAT ALLEN HAS ALSO TAKEN THAT A DRONE IS A ROTARY WING AIRCRAFT, THEREFORE A DRONE IS A HELICOPTER.
THEREFORE, YOU NEED AN SS U P FOR A HELIPAD IN ORDER TO OPERATE A, A DRONE HUB.
SO THOSE ARE KIND OF THE THREE FLAVORS, UM, IN TEXAS.
AND AT THE MOMENT, COLLEGE STATION, TO MY KNOWLEDGE, IS THE ONLY ONE WHO HAS IDENTIFIED IT AS A DISTINCT LAND USE.
SO WE'RE FOLLOWING THE AGGIES.
I'M NOT FROM TEXAS, SO DON'T BLAME ME.
UM, ONLY AFTER WE'RE DONE WITH QUESTIONS.
IS THERE ANY MORE QUESTIONS? UH, HE'S SAID AFTER WE'RE DONE.
YEAH, I, I THINK THAT, UH, THE WORK THAT, UH, THAT WE'VE DONE ON THIS IS, IS WELL DONE.
BUT AS I, I LOOK AT THIS WHOLE THING AND I, I THINK DRONE DELIVERY WILL BE IMPORTANT.
AND I SOMEWHAT ECHO, UM, COMMISSIONER OF ORDER.
WE HAVEN'T HEARD FROM THE APPLICANTS YET.
ARE, AREN'T THEY SUPPOSED TO GIVE A PRE YEAH, IT IS A PUBLIC HEARING.
SORRY, YOU GUYS, WE RATTLED ON FOR 30 MINUTES.
I WILL OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING.
YEAH, I DON'T, DO WE HAVE ANYONE TO SPEAK ON THIS? I DIDN'T THINK WE DID.
WE, WE DO HAVE TWO SPEAKERS WHO WOULD LIKE TO ADDRESS THE COMMISSION.
I DON'T THINK THEY WERE ON THE LIST ORIGINALLY.
WERE THEY? FIRST IS KENDALL PROZAC, AND THEN NEXT IS ERIC BREMMER.
[02:20:01]
OKAY.I'M JUST HERE TO ANSWER QUESTIONS.
SO HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY, YOU'RE GLUTTON FOR PUNISHMENT IS WHAT YOU ARE.
SHE'S JUST ANSWERED QUESTIONS.
SO YOU DON'T HAVE A PRESENTATION OR ANYTHING? NO.
MR. BRAR, DO YOU HAVE COMMENTS THAT YOU WOULD LIKE TO ADDRESS? THE COMMISSION? NO, JUST AVAILABLE FOR COMMENTS, QUESTIONS, CONCERNS, WHATEVER MAY ARISE.
SO MR. LYLE HAS A QUESTION, AND MR. RUNOFF HAS A QUESTION.
WHO DO YOU WANT TO ASK YOUR QUESTION OF? OKAY.
WHO FEELS LIKE STANDING UP? YEAH, COME ON UP.
CAN YOU GIVE ME YOUR 32ND OR THREE MINUTE THOUGHTS ON IF YOU PLAN TO FOLLOW THIS, IF YOU THINK YOU'RE PREEMPTED, WHAT YOU LIKE ABOUT IT, WHAT YOU DON'T LIKE ABOUT IT AFTER YOU LADIES FIRST? UM, YEAH, OF COURSE.
IDEALLY WE WOULDN'T WANT THE ORDINANCE AS WE'VE DISCUSSED PREVIOUSLY.
UM, BUT JORDAN HAS BEEN REALLY GREAT TO WORK WITH SO FAR.
SO WE REALLY DO APPRECIATE THE COMMUNICATION THAT STAFF HAS BEEN REALLY RECEPTIVE, COMING OUT TO THE SITE, SEEING EVERYTHING, ASKING THE QUESTIONS AS WELL, OF YOU ALL ASKING THE RIGHT QUESTIONS.
UM, I THINK FOR US, THE TWO HARDEST THINGS THAT ARE PROPOSED RIGHT NOW IN THE ORDINANCE IS THE SCREENING.
UM, BECAUSE WE HAVE SCREENING OVER OUR TAKEOFF AND LANDING AREA.
UM, YOU'LL HEAR FROM JOAN UP IN A SECOND, BUT WE HAVE THAT THERE FOR SAFETY PURPOSES, SO, AND SECURITY.
SO PEOPLE CAN'T JUST WALK UP TO AN ACTIVE FLIGHT LINE.
SO WITH THE, UM, MASONRY THAT WOULD BE USED NORMALLY IN PLANO, THAT IS OUR BIGGEST CONCERN.
THAT POSES A HUGE ISSUE FOR US TO HAVE, UM, OUR OPERATIONS RUN PROPERLY THEN.
AND THEN THE SECOND ONE, UM, IS ALSO WENT RIGHT OUTTA MY HEAD.
UM, THE LITTLE ELM NEST THAT JORDAN HAD, UM, BROUGHT UP THAT WAS ABOUT 1900 SQUARE FEET.
AND WE ONLY HAVE SIX PADS AT THAT LOCATION.
SO TO HAVE IT DOWN TO A THOUSAND SQUARE FEET, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT JUST TWO DRONES.
SO IT WOULD BE A VERY INCREDIBLY SMALL OPERATION.
LIKELY WE WOULD NOT HAVE SOMETHING THAT SMALL UNLESS WE WERE ABLE TO SHARE WITH MULTIPLE VENDORS AT THAT LOCATION.
UM, OUR TWO MAJOR CONCERNS, UH, ALSO INCLUDE SCREENING, UH, AS WELL AS THE SQUARE FOOTAGE OF AVAILABLE SPACE.
IF YOU LOOK AT OUR CURRENT OPERATING FACILITY IN PLANO, IT SITS ON ABOUT EIGHT PARKING SPACES.
UH, WHICH MATH TELLS ME THAT'S LIKE 17, 1800 ISH SQUARE FEET, UH, WHICH IS PROBABLY THE SMALLEST WE COULD EVER CONSIDER FOR A TEMPORARY OPERATION.
WHEN WE BRING OUR PERMANENT STRUCTURES IN THAT ARE PURPOSE-BUILT, UH, MODULAR STRUCTURES, WE'RE LOOKING AT MORE LIKE FIVE OR 6,000 SQUARE FEET, UH, TO INCLUDE, YOU KNOW, EIGHT TO 10 OR MORE, UH, TAKEOFF OF LANDING PADS.
SO THE, THE ORDINANCE READS 10% OF THE LOT OR A THOUSAND FEET WHICHEVER'S GREATER.
BUT IN THOSE LOCATIONS WHERE YOU HAVE 18, 1900 SQUARE FEET, I THINK THAT THE NUMBER THAT CAME UP WAS LIKE, THAT'S 2%.
YOU COULD HAVE UP TO 19,000 SQUARE FEET POTENTIALLY IN THAT LOCATION, WHICH WOULD BE MORE THAN ENOUGH ROOM TO OPERATE, OPERATE A PRETTY LARGE FACILITY.
SO THE THOUSAND FOOT COMMISSIONER IFFS IS, IS IT MEANINGFUL OR IS IT EVEN NECESSARY? RIGHT.
I DO GET CONCERNED ABOUT SMALLER OPERATIONS FOR SMALLER CLIENTS.
WE MAY HAVE, YOU KNOW, I'LL USE EXAMPLES, CRUMBLE COOKIE, UM, ANYONE THAT OCCUPIES A 2000 SQUARE FOOT RETAIL STOREFRONT WON'T HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THE, THE PLATFORM OR THE SYSTEM WITHOUT THE ENTIRE COMPLEX SIGNING UP AND BEING A, A CLIENT.
BECAUSE WE'D NEED THE SQUARE FOOTAGE OF THE ENTIRE COMPLEX TO BUILD A MEANINGFUL FACILITY.
I, I UNDERSTAND THAT AND I UNDERSTAND THAT FROM YOUR PRESENTATION EARLIER, THAT, UH, YOU'RE NOT CHARGING OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
I DON'T KNOW, BUT THAT CAN'T GO ON FOREVER.
SO IS SOMEONE OPERATING A 2000 FOOT CRUMBLE COOKIE OPERATION GONNA BE ABLE TO AFFORD YOU AT THE POINT TO WHERE YOU WOULD BE WILLING TO OPERATE THAT? SURE.
BUT I'M JUST WONDERING ABOUT THE, THE SQUARE FOOTAGE AND IF IT'S 10%, IT'S 10%.
AND IS THERE GONNA BE ENOUGH, UH, DEMAND? I AM ALSO A LITTLE CONCERNED ABOUT YOU HAVE A FACILITY LIKE THIS AND IN ONE CORNER YOU WIND UP WITH FOUR DIFFERENT PADS GOING 'CAUSE THEY'RE DOING ONE, THEY'RE DOING ONE, THEY'RE DOING IT WITH WING, THEY'RE DOING IT WITH, UH, DRONE UP AND YOU WIND UP WITH, YOU KNOW, FOUR OF THESE BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, WE'VE GOT THIS ARRANGEMENT ON THE SQUARE FOOTAGE AND THAT COULD BECOME PROBLEMATIC.
[02:25:02]
SO, UM, MR. BRONSKI QUESTION.UH, SO MY QUESTION, UH, FOR IS FOR STAFF RELATED TO A COMMENT THEY MADE, UH, THEY TALKED ABOUT THE MASONRY SCREENING BEING A PROBLEM FOR THE TAKEOFF AND LANDING, BUT MY UNDERSTANDING WAS WE REMOVED THAT.
AM I, AM I WRONG? RIGHT, BUT IT WAS JUST FOR THE STORAGE.
THE, THE PROPOSAL AT THE LAST MEETING WAS SCREENING ONLY OF THE STORAGE AREA, NOT THE TAKEOFF AND LANDING.
SO TO BOTH OF YOU, NOW THAT WE'VE REMOVED THAT FROM THE OPERATIONS OF WHERE THE DRONES ARE TAKING OFF FROM, UH, ARE YOU ACCEPTABLE WITH THE OTHER SCREENING THAT WE'VE PUT IN THIS? YES, I'D STILL HAVE A LITTLE BIT OF A CHALLENGE.
IF YOU LOOK AT OUR CURRENT OPERATING FACILITY THAT EXISTS OF A, A TRAILER WITH A GENERATOR AND A FOUR FOOT BY SIX FOOT BOX TRAILER THAT WE USE FOR STORAGE, UH, THEY CURRENTLY SIT IN, UH, A SINGLE PARKING SPACE AND BUILDING MASONRY SCREENING OR A LIVE SCREEN OVER A SINGLE PARKING SPACE FEELS ODD, WOULD BE THE WORD I'D USE.
UH, SO IF WE REMOVE THAT, THAT AS A REQUIREMENT, UM, YOU KNOW, BACK TO THE ORIGINAL RECOMMENDATION THAT WAS PRESENTED BY STAFF THIS AFTERNOON, UH, FOR, YOU KNOW, HAVING A, UH, UP TO A 22 FOOT TRAILER, UH, OR A SINGLE STRUCTURE, I THINK WE CAN MAKE THAT WORK.
BUT IF, IF I'VE GOTTA PUT A MASONRY SCREEN UP FOR, YOU KNOW, FOUR FOOT BY SIX FOOT BOX TRAILER AND A GENERATOR OF SIMILAR SIZE IN A SINGLE PARKING SPACE, THAT WOULD BE TOUGH.
SO ON THE, THE THE PARTICULAR PLACE YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT RIGHT NOW, YOU'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT SOMETHING THAT SMALL THOUGH, FOR OUR FUTURE STATE.
SO IN A FUTURE STATE, YOU'RE NOT GONNA BE SITTING IN THE MIDDLE OF THE PARKING LOT.
SO THEN THAT'S, I I'M AS CONCERNED ABOUT TODAY AS I AM TOMORROW.
UH, AND I WANNA MAKE SURE WE GET THIS RIGHT AS BEST WE CAN IN BOTH WAYS.
OKAY, SO NOW I'M CONFUSED 'CAUSE I THOUGHT I UNDERSTOOD THIS.
I THOUGHT WE ELIMINATED ALL SCREENING.
THE CURRENT, THE CURRENT PROPOSAL IS TO EXEMPT ONE TRAILER IN ONE STORAGE CONTAINER FROM THE SCREENING REQUIREMENTS.
SO WHAT HE'S TALKING ABOUT IS THE ONE TRAILER, AND ONE IS SAYING THAT'S A PROBLEM FOR HIM, BUT THAT'S NOT WHAT THE ORDINANCE CURRENTLY SAYS.
IT SAYS YOU WOULD NOT HAVE TO SCREEN THAT.
I'M GOING BACK TO THE COMMENTS EARLIER THIS EVENING THAT UNDID THAT DECISION.
THAT'S WHY WE WANT TO TALK TO YOU ABOUT IT.
SO THE PROPOSAL ON THE TABLE IS STILL THAT THAT WOULDN'T BE SCREENED.
AND WHAT YOU'RE, WHAT I'M HEARING YOU SAY IS, PLEASE DON'T ADD IT BACK, PLEASE.
UM, SO BACK TO YOUR OTHER QUESTION ABOUT THE THOUSAND SQUARE FEET, I'M GONNA USE YOUR CRUMBLE COOKIE EXAMPLE BECAUSE I'VE BUILT A LOT OF SHOPPING CENTERS IN MY CAREER AND IT IS VERY, VERY, VERY EXCEEDINGLY RARE, UM, THAT ONE OF THOSE PEOPLE IS ON THEIR OWN LOT.
THEY'RE USUALLY PART OF A STRIP CENTER.
AND IF THE RULE IS, AND I THIS IS MORE OF A QUESTION FOR STAFF, I GUESS TO MAKE SURE I'M UNDERSTANDING, IT'S A 10% OF THE LOT AREA NOT OF THE INDIVIDUAL USER CONTRACTING WITH THEM.
WOULD THAT BE CORRECT? CORRECT.
IT READS 10% OF THE TOTAL LOT AREA.
SO IF YOU'RE IN A NEIGHBORHOOD RETAIL CENTER THAT SITS ON A 10 ACRE CORNER, THEY COULD USE AN ACRE OF IT, WHICH IS MORE THAN THE SIZE THAT THEY'RE LOOKING FOR.
IT'S LIMITED TO, TO 10% OR A THOUSAND SQUARE FEET, WHICHEVER IS GREATER.
SO IN THAT CASE, THE A THOUSAND SQUARE FEET CABIN, NO, NO, 10% IS GREATER THAN A THOUSAND.
IT'S A MINIMUM OF A THOUSANDS.
SO THAT ADDRESSES THEIR CONCERN, WITH THE EXCEPTION OF, BECAUSE I LIVE DOWN HERE, A DOWNTOWN BUSINESS THAT IS IN ONE OF THESE STOREFRONTS DOWN HERE, BUT THEY DON'T HAVE ANY PARKING LOT ANYWAY.
ALL THEY HAVE IS A BUILDING, SO THAT ONE'S GONNA HAVE TO BE ON THE ROOF ANYHOW.
YEAH, AS LONG AS THE LOT IS DEFINED AS THE, THE ENTIRE PARCEL AND NOT THE BUSINESS THAT WE'D BE PARTNERED WITH, I THINK WE'D BE OKAY.
AND THAT'S THE WAY THE ORDINANCE IS WRITTEN IS ON A LEGAL LOT.
SO IT, IT'S NOT ON THE USER, IT'S ON THE LOT.
AND SO I HOPE THAT ADDRESSES, I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE, BASED ON YOUR COMMENTS, THAT WE'VE, WE HAVE ADDRESSED ALL OF YOUR CONCERNS.
SO IT SOUNDS LIKE WE HAVE ADDRESSED THE SCREENING ISSUE.
WE HAVE ADDRESSED THE SMALL SITE ISSUE.
IF YOU HAVE A SMALL RETAIL CUSTOMER.
UM, AND SO THOSE WERE YOUR TWO, BOTH OF Y'ALL, THOSE WERE YOUR TWO ISSUES.
SO WITH, WITH THAT SAID, ARE WE GOOD? DO YOU HAVE ANY MORE QUESTIONS,
SO WITH THOSE SAID, SOUNDS LIKE WE'RE GOOD.
SO, I, I HAVE A, NOT A QUESTION FOR YOU GUYS, UH, BUT A OTHER QUESTION FOR STAFF, UM, IN SOME CASES, UM, THERE ARE LOTS ON,
[02:30:02]
UH, AREAS.UM, I'M THINKING OF THE CORNER AT, UH, CUSTER AND PARKER, THE NORTHEAST OR, UH, NORTHWEST CORNER.
THERE'S THREE DIFFERENT, OR FOUR DIFFERENT LOTS THAT ALL MEET TOGETHER THERE.
UH, AND SO FROM WHAT I'M UNDERSTANDING, IT'S POSSIBLE THAT WE COULD HAVE THREE DIFFERENT DRONE DELIVERY COMPANIES ALL WITHIN A VERY SMALL AREA OF EACH OTHER ON THAT PARTICULAR PARCEL, SINCE IT'S THREE DIFFERENT PARCELS MAKING UP THAT CORNER.
UH, SO TO ANSWER THE QUESTION, THE, UM, PROPOSED STANDARDS DO NOT INCLUDE ANY MAXIMUM NUMBER OF OPERATORS ON A SITE.
IT ALSO DOES NOT INCLUDE ANY REQUIRED BUFFER DISTANCES BETWEEN OPERATORS, UM, TO ALLOW FOR FLEXIBILITY NOW AND IN THE FUTURE.
SO YES, YOU, YOU COULD END UP WITH A DIFFERENT OPERATOR OPERATING THEIR OWN, UM, UH, TAKEOFF ALERT DRONE STAGING AREA ON THREE LOTS, ALL RIGHT.
UM, AND THAT WOULD BE FULLY COMPLIANT WITH OUR ORDINANCE.
UM, I HAD A SECOND QUESTION, BUT IT COMPLETELY LEFT ME
WHERE, WHERE DO WE WANT TO GO FROM HERE? I, I THINK WE'VE DETERMINED THAT THE NEW ORDINANCE IS KIND OF, WE'RE STILL PUBLIC HEARING.
WE STILL ARE IN A PUBLIC HEARING AND THERE'S NO ONE ELSE SPEAKING.
IS THERE, YOU GUYS, SOMEBODY ELSE WANNA SIT HERE?
UM, MR. CAREY, I'D LIKE TO GO BACK BEFORE YOU SAID YOU HAD SOME COMMENTS.
UM, SO, YOU KNOW, A COUPLE THINGS HAVE BEEN SAID.
UM, SOME, SOME COMMISSIONERS HAVE TALKED ABOUT, UM, WE'RE BEING EARLY IN THE PROCESS HERE.
THIS IS A FAST, WE'RE VERY QUICKLY DEVELOPING INDUSTRY.
AND, UM, AND SO I, I THINK THOSE THINGS MATTER.
UM, AS, AS I LOOK AT THIS, THE, THE ONE THING THAT MATTERS TO ME, AND, UM, THE LADY HERE TALKED ABOUT SCREENING OFF THE LANDING AREA AFTER VISITING ONE OF THESE, AND NOT A MASONRY SCREEN, BUT FOR SAFETY, THAT MAKES SENSE TO ME.
I THINK WE'RE TOO EARLY ON THIS, AND, AND I HOPE THAT'S NOT INSULTING TO THE STAFF WHO'S DONE A GREAT JOB, BUT THIS IS ALL MOVING SO FAST.
AND I, I DO THINK WE MAY BE OVERLY PRESCRIPTIVE, AND I JUST WONDER IF WE REALLY NEED TO DO THIS RIGHT NOW.
I KNOW WE'VE BEEN THROUGH THIS, AND MAYBE I SHOULD HAVE SAID IT, UH, YOU KNOW, SIX MONTHS AGO.
BUT AS I'VE LEARNED MORE ABOUT THIS, I JUST, I'M NOT SEEING THE DEMAND FOR US DOING THIS.
AND OH, BY THE WAY, WE'RE GONNA BE THE FIRST CITY IN TEXAS TO DO IT.
AND, UM, SOMETIMES IT'S NOT GREAT TO BE THE FIRST, UM, TO DO THINGS.
AND SO MY COMMENTS ARE, I JUST, UH, OTHER THAN MAKING SURE THAT JUST SAFETY ELEMENT TO PEOPLE WALKING INTO THESE DRONE DELIVERY AREAS, I DON'T KNOW THAT I'M IN FAVOR OF TRYING TO PRESCRIBE WHAT HAPPENS WITH THIS RIGHT NOW.
SO THOSE ARE MY COMMENTS, MR. BURNOFF.
UM, I WOULD ALSO LIKE TO EMPHASIZE THAT THIS IS A NEW AND EMERGING INDUSTRY, THEREFORE, WE DO NOT YET HAVE THE BENEFIT OF EXPERIENCE THAT WOULD ALLOW US TO WRITE A PERFECT ORDINANCE.
WHAT HAS OPENED US TO US TO DO RIGHT NOW, HOWEVER, IS NOT TO FALL BEHIND THE CURVE OF THE FUTURE, BECAUSE THIS IS AN EMERGING INDUSTRY WHICH WILL TAKE OFF AND IS GOING TO GAIN TRACTION NATIONWIDE.
AND I DON'T THINK WE WANNA BE LEFT BEHIND.
UM, WE COULD SPEND ALL NIGHT, ALL WEEK, ALL MONTH, ALL YEAR TRYING TO NITPICK THIS PROPOSAL AND IN THE PROCESS, NITPICK IT TO DEATH UNTIL WE'VE GOT NOTHING.
OKAY? WE ARE ON THE VERGE OF PARALYZING OURSELVES WITH TRYING TO GUESS AT WHAT A PERFECT ORDINANCE WOULD BE.
MY SUGGESTION IS WE PASS IT AS IS AND GAIN THE BENEFIT OF EXPERIENCE, LET THESE PEOPLE GET THEIR BUSINESS UNDERWAY, GET SOME DRONES OPERATING, OBSERVE THE RESULTS, AND BASED ON OUR OBSERVATIONS OF THE RESULTS, IF THE ORDINANCE THEN NEEDS TWEAKING, WE CAN DO IT AND WE'LL HAVE SOME EXPERIENCE ON WHICH TO BASE THE TWEAKS.
RIGHT NOW, WE DON'T HAVE THAT EXPERIENCE.
I THINK THE BEST THING WE CAN DO IS JUST PASS THIS, LET IT GO, SEE WHERE IT GOES, AND THEN IF IT WORKS, FINE, WE LEAVE IT ALONE.
IF IT DOESN'T, WE CAN THEN CHANGE IT.
UM, WITH REGARD TO THE PARKING, WE POINTED OUT LAST TIME THAT DRONE DELIVERY SERVICES TAKE CARS OFF THE ROADS AND THEREFORE, OUT OF PARKING SPACES,
[02:35:01]
WE WOULD NOT NEED AS MANY PARKING SPACES GIVEN A DRONE DELIVERY SERVICE.UM, THE BUSINESSES THAT WOULD HAVE TO SET UP STAGING AREAS WOULD HAVE TO DO IT ON, ON WHAT ARE NOW PARKING SPACES.
SO THERE'S A LOGICAL CONNECTION BETWEEN GIVING US THE DISCRETION TO REDUCE THE PARKING REQUIREMENTS ON A CASE BY CASE BASIS, BASED UPON THE LACK, THE, THE, UH, THE, THE REDUCTION OF DEMAND FOR PARKING, UM, AND THE NEED OF THE BUSINESS TO TAKE EXISTING PARKING SPACES AND DIVERT IT TO DRONE USE.
I THINK THAT THE, UM, MAXIMUM OF, OF THE, THE GREATER OF 10% OF THE LOT AREA OR A THOUSAND FEET, IS AN ADEQUATE STARTING AMOUNT OF AREA.
IF IT NEEDS TO BE INCREASED LATER, WE CAN INCREASE IT LATER.
I'M ALSO WONDERING WHETHER WITH REGARD TO THE DRONE DELIVERY HUBS SMALL, WHICH CAN BE OPERATED AS A PRIMARY USE IN LIGHT INDUSTRIAL AND COMMERCIAL EMPLOYMENT DISTRICTS, WHETHER THAT RESTRICTION WOULD APPLY BECAUSE IT WOULD NOW BE A PRIMARY USE AND NOT MERELY AN ACCESSORY USE.
SO IF IT WOULDN'T APPLY, THEN THERE WOULD BE LAND USES IN WHICH THAT WOULDN'T EVEN APPLY.
THEY COULD TAKE THE WHOLE, THEY COULD TAKE THE WHOLE LOT, AS FAR AS I'M CONCERNED.
SO FOR THAT REASON, I'M IN FAVOR OF THIS ORDINANCE AS IS, AND I THINK WE SHOULD ADOPT IT.
WELL, COMMISSIONER BRUNO, JUST, UM, STATED HAVING BEEN PART OF AN INDUSTRY CURRENTLY WHERE LAND IS A CRITICAL INPUT AND THE TECHNOLOGY HAS CHANGED SO RAPIDLY WITH THE DREAD OF AI, WHEN I'M PLANNING FIVE YEARS OUT, I WOULD APPRECIATE CLARITY OF HOW I CAN USE THAT INPUT.
SO BEING FIRST DOES NOT SCARE ME AT ALL.
UM, ONE, TWO, I'M NOT GONNA DELUDE MYSELF INTO THINKING THAT I CAN, I HAVE THE PLANNING SKILLS AND OR THE FORESIGHT OF HOW THIS TECHNOLOGY IS GOING TO EVOLVE IN THE NEXT TWO YEARS.
UM, TO BE ABLE TO RIDE A PERFECT, PERFECT ORDINANCE, UM, THIS FEELS GOOD ENOUGH.
AND I THINK THE APPROACH THAT STAFF TOOK IN INCORPORATING, HOWEVER CONFUSING THE TIMES OUR INPUTS, AND MOST ESPECIALLY THE OPERATOR'S INPUTS SHOULD BE COMMENDED.
UM, AND I WILL, I'M SUPPORTIVE OF COMMISSIONER BRUNO'S STATEMENT ON THAT.
UM, KIND OF PIGGYBACKING ON THAT COMMENT, I, AGAIN, IN MY INDUSTRY, REGULATORY UNCERTAINTY IS AS BAD AS REGULATORY CERTAINTY.
AND, AND IF YOU'RE IN THE WILD, WILD WEST WITH REGULATORY UNCERTAINTY, UM, YOU MIGHT MAKE THE DIFFERENT BUSINESS DECISIONS NOT KNOWING IF DAY AFTER TOMORROW, YOU'RE NOT ALLOWED TO DO THAT ANYMORE.
AND SO I, I, I LIKE THE CONCEPT OF HAVING SOME REGULATORY FRAMEWORK AND CERTAINTY FOR THESE OPERATORS TO KNOW EXACTLY WHAT THEY'RE BEING ASKED TO DO AND WHAT THEY'RE WALKING INTO.
AND, AND IT GIVES ME SOME COMFORT TO HAVE THE TWO OF THEM STAND AT THE MICROPHONE AND WE CONFIRM THAT WE HAVE ADDRESSED THEIR ISSUES, THAT THERE AREN'T ANY DEAL KILLERS OUT THERE THAT ARE GONNA KEEP THEM FROM COMING TO PLAINTIFF.
WHAT ALSO GIVES ME A LOT OF, UM, CONFIDENCE IS THAT IN, IN MY EXPERIENCE FOR DECADES, PLANO HAS BEEN A LEADER IN DEVELOPING THIS EXACT TYPE OF, OR BEING ON THE FRONT EDGE OF FIGURING OUT THESE DIFFICULT PROBLEMS. AND THIS IS A PRIME EXAMPLE OF THE J THE GREAT JOB THAT THE PLANO STAFF HAS DONE FOR AS LONG AS I CAN REMEMBER, OF NOT SHYING AWAY FROM THESE HARD PROBLEMS AND, AND SOLVING THEM.
AND I WILL, I WILL PREDICT FOR YOU THAT YOU'LL SEE THIS ORDINANCE DUPLICATED IN IF NOT DOZENS, HUNDREDS OF OTHER COMMUNITIES AROUND THE STATE BEFORE THIS IS OVER.
UM, BECAUSE OUR STAFF HAS DONE THIS DEEP DIVE HARD WORK THAT THEY'VE DONE IN SUCH AN EXCELLENT MANNER.
AND SO WITH THAT SAID, UM, I'M, I, I'M FOLLOWING THE SIDE OF PROVIDING THIS INDUSTRY SOME REGULATORY CERTAINTY AND FRAMEWORK THAT I'M CONFIDENT THE STAFF HAS DONE A GREAT JOB DEFINING.
AND, UM, I THINK WE NEED TO GIVE THEM THAT CONFIDENCE THAT THEY CAN MOVE INTO PLANO AND KNOW WHAT THE RULES ARE.
AND SO WITH THAT SAID, I'M, I'M ALL FOR THIS MR. LAW.
I FIND MYSELF UNABLE TO SUPPORT THIS ORDINANCE MERELY FOR THE INCONSISTENCY, UH, IN THE, UH, OPEN STORAGE RESTRICTIONS.
[02:40:01]
AND WHILE I MAY, IN THE LAST MEETING HAVE BEEN ONE OF THE PROPONENTS FOR REDUCING THEM, REDUCING THEM JUST FOR SOMEBODY AND NOT FOR EVERYBODY DOESN'T WORK FOR ME.UH, WITHIN OUR ZONING ORDINANCE TODAY, WE HAVE EXEMPTIONS FOR RESTAURANTS.
IT'S NOT OPEN STORAGE IF THEY STORE FIREWOOD, WE HAVE EXEMPTIONS FOR RESTAURANTS.
YOU CAN HAVE A TRAILER OUTSIDE, UH, AS LONG AS THERE'S, THERE'S RESTRICTIONS THAT GO WITH IT.
UH, FOR PEOPLE WITH COLLECTION UNITS, I BELIEVE THAT YOU CAN HAVE, UH, STORAGE CONTAINERS, MR. BELL, YOU'LL HAVE TO CORRECT ME, BUT YOU CAN HAVE A STORAGE CONTAINER FOR A COLLECTION UNIT, LIKE AT A TOM THUMB OR SOMETHING.
IF IT'S ONE CONTAINER, IS IT CLOSE? GET BACK TO YOU ON THAT.
NOW, NOW, IF YOU'RE OPERATING DRONES, WELL, THERE'S NO THREAT TO HAVE A STORAGE CONTAINER AND A TRAILER.
AND SO I WENT BACK TO THE JULY 24TH, 2017 MEETING TO ZONING CASE, 20 17 0 14.
AND THERE'S A PIE GRAPH THAT TALKS ABOUT OPEN STORAGE RESTRICTIONS AND WHY WE HAVE 'EM.
AND IT'S HEALTH, SAFETY AND WELFARE.
AND SO THE BULLET POINTS HERE ARE VISUAL APPEARANCE, NUISANCES AND POLLUTION.
AND SO YOU'VE GOT SOME YOUNG BUSINESS OWNER THAT'S TRYING TO RUN A CONSTRUCTION COMPANY OR A LANDSCAPE COMPANY, AND THEY GO THROUGH WALMART'S PARKING LOT AND THERE'S A 20 FOOT SHIPPING CONTAINER THERE, OR A 20 FOOT TRAILER.
AND, AND THEY THINK, OH, WELL MAN, I'M, I'M IN THE CLEAR.
AND THEY RENT A LITTLE OFFICE BUILDING SOMEWHERE AND THEY THINK THEY CAN PUT A SHIPPING CONTAINER OUT THERE FOR THEIR CONSTRUCTION EQUIPMENT AND A TRAILER NEXT TO IT.
AND THERE'S NO BASIS FOR DIFFERENTIATING BETWEEN WHAT THEY'RE DOING AND WHAT WE ALLOW AND SAY IS NOT THREAT AND, AND WHAT WE, WHAT, WHAT WE'RE ASKING OUR, UM, NEIGHBORHOOD FOLKS TO COME AND ENFORCE ON SOMEBODY ELSE.
AND SO IT'S JUST COMPLETELY INCONSISTENT.
AND FOR THAT REASON, I WON'T BE ABLE TO SUPPORT THIS TONIGHT.
UM, FIRST OF ALL, I WANNA APOLOGIZE TO THE STAFF MEMBERS.
'CAUSE I REALIZE THAT WE MAY HAVE GIVEN YOU CONFUSING,
UM, BUT WE REALLY APPRECIATE WHAT YOU HAVE DONE.
IT'S A TREMENDOUS WORK AND, UH, WE ARE WORKING WITH THE, UH, THE VENDOR AND, UH, THE NEIGHBORHOOD AND EVERYTHING.
SO THANK YOU, THANK YOU FOR DOING EVERYTHING.
AND I CONCUR OR WANNA SAY AGAIN, UH, AGREE TO MOST OF OUR COM COMMISSIONERS THAT TONIGHT THAT THIS WE NEED, UM, HAVE SOME RULES AND REGULATIONS AND ORDINANCES TO DO THIS SINCE IT'S A FAST DEVELOPING INDUSTRY AND THEY NEED US TO PROVIDE GUIDANCE.
AND THAT'S WHAT WE'RE HERE FOR.
WE PROVIDE GUIDANCE TO NEW THINGS COMING TO THE CITY AND AS A, UM, CITY OF EXCELLENCE AND WE NEED TO DO THIS.
UM, THE ONLY THINGS THAT, UH, THE TWO THINGS THAT I WOULDN'T AGREE ON THIS PROPOSAL IS THE ONE THING THE, UH, COMMISSIONER LYLE MENTIONED ABOUT THE SCREENING AROUND THE STORAGE OR THE, UH, CONTAINER OR TRAILER, UM, UH, I'M OPPOSED TO THAT.
I THINK WE RE REMOVE, WE SHOULD REMOVE THAT EXCEPTION.
UM, REQUIRED THEM TO HAVE THE SCREENING ON, UH, THE, A TRAILER OR A CONTAINER IN A OPEN AREA.
UM, THAT'S JUST, UH, BEING CONSISTENT AND ALSO, UM, KIND OF FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE REST OF THE COMMUNITY.
UM, THAT'S A, A BIG CHANGE FOR A LOT.
PLUS WE DON'T HAVE ANY RIGHT NOW.
WE, ACCORDING TO THE STEPS, THAT WE DON'T HAVE ANY RULES TO REGULATE THEM, TO HAVE MULTIPLE, UH, VENDORS OR OPERATORS IN THE SAME CORNER, AND EVERY ONE OF THEM HAS A TRAILER ON THE CORNER.
THEN OUR CORNER SHOPPING CENTERS OR AREA THAT WE DON'T KNOW, THERE ARE THREE LOT THERE.
WE JUST SEE AS A CITIZEN, AS A CORNER, IT USED TO BE A NICE SHOPPING CENTER OR WITH, YOU KNOW, A DIFFERENT BUILDINGS.
NOW WE HAVE, YOU KNOW, THREE PARCELS AND THREE OPERATOR AND THREE TRAILERS.
THE SECOND THING IS REGARDING THE SCREEN ON THE ROOFTOP, I DON'T THINK IT'S NECESSARY.
I'M NOT SURE IF THAT'S A DEAL BREAKER TO THE OPERATORS.
I FORGOT TO ASK THAT QUESTION EARLIER.
BUT I THINK IF THERE ARE GOING TO OPERATE ON THE ROOFTOP ANYWAY, HAVING THAT SCREENING OR NOT HAVING THAT SCREENING DOESN'T MATTER TO THEM.
AND WHY PUT AN EXCEPTION THERE WHEN WE DON'T NEED IT.
SO BASED ON THOSE TWO THINGS I'M OPPOSING TO THE PROPOSAL.
SO COMMISSIONER, I JUST WANTED TO MENTION THAT IF, IF YOU'RE IN FAVOR OF NOT REGULATING AND JUST GIVING THEM FREE REIGN TO DO WHAT THEY WISH RIGHT NOW, THE DEFAULT IS THAT THEY'RE PROHIBITED.
THERE'S A, THERE'S AN ENFORCEMENT ACTION PENDING.
SO YOU WOULD WANT TO RECOMMEND A CHANGE TO THE ORDINANCE TO SPECIFICALLY ALLOW THEM, RATHER THAN JUST DOING NOTHING IF THAT'S WHAT YOU WANT TO DO.
I JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT
[02:45:01]
WAS CLEAR TO EVERYONE.SO, UM, I'M REALLY TORN ON THIS BECAUSE, UM, I FEEL MORE COMFORTABLE THAT, UM, THE PEOPLE THAT WE'RE TALKING TO THAT WE'RE ACTUALLY TALKING TO THE OPERATORS AND THEY FEEL PRETTY GOOD ABOUT WHAT WE'RE DOING.
UM, I ORIGINALLY WAS, UH, IN THE COURT OF WHERE MR. CAREY SITS, BUT, UM, I'M REALLY FEELING MOVED, UH, IN THE DIRECTION OF WE NEED TO PROVIDE SOME GUIDANCE.
HOWEVER, UM, I THINK MR. LYLE, UH, MAKES A POINT.
AND, UH, MS. TONG, UH, I AGREE, UH, AT THE CORNER OF CUSTER AND PARKER ON THE NORTHEAST CORNER, WE COULD SEE THREE DIFFERENT DELIVERY COMPANIES, THREE DIFFERENT STORAGE CONTAINERS.
AND, UH, THAT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE TO ME.
UM, THE IDEA THAT THAT POSSIBILITY AND THAT COULD BE ON ALL OVER THE CITY.
AND SO I'M, I'M NOT SURE THAT I COULD SUPPORT THE WAY IT IS CURRENTLY WRITTEN WITH THAT.
THAT SAID, I THINK EVERYTHING ELSE IN IT IS GOOD AND I, I FEEL LIKE I COULD SUPPORT IT OTHERWISE.
SO, UH, CAN I SAY A FEW WORDS, MS. BRALEY? SO, IN TERMS OF GETTING OUT IN FRONT OF THIS, UH, KEEP IN MIND THAT WE DO HAVE RESIDENTS THAT HAVE REACHED OUT AND UNHAPPY ABOUT DRONES FLYING AND CONCERNED ABOUT DRONES FLYING OVER THEIR HOUSES.
AND THEY HAVE A BELIEF THAT, OH, THAT'S NOT ALLOWED.
AND SO I, I THINK IT'S NECESSARY FOR US TO BE TAKING ACTION AS A CITY FOR THE CITIZENS TO UNDERSTAND THAT, HEY, WE ARE LOOKING AT THIS AND WE ARE FOLLOWING THE RULES AND WE ARE CREATING SOME GUIDELINES FOR THE OPERATION OF THESE.
SO I, I THINK IT'S WORTH GETTING OUT THERE.
UM, WE TEND TO GO DOWN THE PATH OF, OH NO, THIS IS GOING TO HAPPEN.
UM, I, I, I GUESS IT'S POSSIBLE THAT YOU COULD HAVE THREE OPERATORS ALL NEEDING 22 FOOT STORAGE CONTAINERS AND TRAILERS WITH, WITH GENERATORS IN THAT ONE CORNER, BUT THERE WOULD'VE TO BE A DEMAND FOR IT IN TERMS OF THE RETAIL THERE, WHICH IS PROBABLY NOT ACTIVE RIGHT NOW.
SO, UM, I GUESS I, I'LL ASK THIS QUESTION OF STAFF REAL QUICK.
OUR, OUR DEFINITION OF SCREENING HAS BEEN A MASONRY WALL OR LIVING SCREEN.
IS THERE ANOTHER TYPE OF SCREENING THAT COULD BE PUT UP? IS THAT EIGHT FOOT CHAIN LINK WITH THE, THE, THE STUFF ON IT? AND IS THAT ANY PRETTIER THAN JUST THE CONTAINER? RIGHT.
SO I, I, I JUST DON'T KNOW THAT WE'VE GOT A GOOD SOLUTION IN THAT WAY.
AND IT CERTAINLY DOESN'T MAKE SENSE FOR AN OPERATOR TO COME IN AND BUILD A, A MASONRY SCREENING WALL AND BUILD A LIVE A LIVE SCREEN WHEN THEY MAY OR MAY NOT BE THERE IN NINE MONTHS OR A YEAR BECAUSE OF DEMAND IN THAT LOCATION OR IN THE MIDDLE OF A PARKING LOT OR IN THE MIDDLE OF A PARKING LOT.
SO ARE THERE OTHER SCREENING OPPORTUNITIES THAT WE COULD USE THAT MIGHT FUNCTION THAT THEN MIGHT HELP SOME OF OUR COMMISSIONERS WITH THE IDEA THAT IT WON'T BE JUST A EMPTY OR A CONTAINER SITTING IN A PARKING LOT? IT IS DEFINITELY SOMETHING THAT WE COULD EXPLORE.
UM, IN TERMS OF WHAT'S WRITTEN IN THE ORDINANCE TODAY, UM, AS YOU MENTIONED, IT'S EITHER, UH, REINFORCED MASONRY WALL OR AN IRRIGATED LIVING SCREEN.
IT DOES ALSO SPECIFICALLY CALL OUT THAT, UM, WOODEN FENCES AND CHAIN LIN WITH SLATS CANNOT BE USED AS SCREENING.
THOSE ARE NOT APPROPRIATE AS SCREEN WALLS.
UM, I BELIEVE THAT'S CURRENTLY WHAT'S IN THE ORDINANCE.
BUT I GUESS IF STAFF ARE DIRECTED TO LOOK AT SCREENING REQUIREMENTS IN GENERAL, SINCE THAT IS ITS OWN ARTICLE, UM, IN THE ORDINANCE OR AT, UM, OPEN STORAGE, WHICH AGAIN IS ITS OWN ARTICLE WITH ANY ORDINANCE, THAT IS SOMETHING THAT WE COULD POSSIBLY TAKE AWAY.
AND WE DO HAVE, UM, IN THE STAFF REPORT TWO ALTERNATIVE OPTIONS FOR SCREENING THAT COULD BE CONSIDERED.
UM, SO ONE OF THEM IS FOR JUST A SECURE METAL FENCE.
IT'S NOT CURRENTLY DRAFTED TO BE MORE SPECIFIC THAN THAT, BUT, YOU KNOW, AND CONSISTENCY THE CONVERSATION WE'VE TALKED ABOUT.
SO LET'S, LET'S TAKE THIS PATH.
UM, I MOVE, WE ACCEPT THE STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION FOR THE,
[02:50:01]
UH, ORDINANCE AND REGULATION OF DRONE OPERATION AS PRESENTED.SO WE HAVE A MOTION BY MYSELF WITH A SECOND BY COMMISSIONER ALI.
UH, LET'S SEE IF THIS WILL FLY.
IF NOT, THEN WE'LL HAVE MORE DISCUSSION AND FIGURE OUT WHERE WE GO FROM HERE.
SO PLEASE VOTE
UM, CAN WE CHANGE THIS TO APPROVE A CHAIN LINK FENCE WITH SLATS FOR SECURITY AND AESTHETICS AROUND THE CONTAINER AND TRAILER OPERATIONS? 'CAUSE I KNOW THOSE CAN BE PUT UP RELATIVELY INEXPENSIVELY, BUT ALSO DON'T HAVE TO BE PERMANENT.
UH, IS THAT SOMETHING THAT WE CAN DO IN THIS PARTICULAR ORDINANCE WITHOUT CHANGING THE SCREENING ORDINANCE? YES.
ANYONE, LET'S SEE IF THEY CAN ANSWER THIS.
I'M GONNA SUGGEST, UM, TO THE TEAM OVER HERE.
I KNOW THEY'RE HUDDLING OVER THERE, BUT, UM, THE REQUIREMENT FOR WHEN LOCATED AT GRADE, THEY MEET THE REQUIREMENTS OF SECTION OPEN STORAGE, EXCEPT THAT CHAIN LINK IS A PERMITTED MATERIAL OR CHAIN LINK WITH SLATS AS A PERMITTED MATERIAL CHAIN CHAIN LINK WITH SLATS.
'CAUSE I THINK THE IDEA HERE IS TO SHIELD IT VERSUS IT BEING JUST A SECURITY FEATURE.
I GUESS BE, BEFORE WE GO TOO MUCH FURTHER DOWN THAT PATH, UH, MR. BRONSKI, WOULD THAT MEET YOUR NEED FOR SOME TYPE OF SHIELDING? I WOULD, I WOULD FEEL MORE COMFORTABLE IF THEY HAD, UH, SOME OPTIONS AS TO WHAT THEY CAN PUT IN THERE.
WELL, OUR OPTIONS ARE
BUT IT, IT COULD, IF CHAIN LINK WITH SLATS IS AN OPTION, IS THAT LESS TEMPORARY? WHAT? UH, IT'S AN OPTION.
I WOULD SAY THAT THAT'S NOT THE MOST AESTHETIC AND THE MAINTENANCE OF THAT IS.
DO WE HAVE ANOTHER OPTION THOUGH? 'CAUSE IT SOUNDS LIKE WE'RE STUCK.
WR IRON METALS IS TYPICALLY THE OTHER ALTERNATIVE.
SO MY BIGGEST CONCERN IS, IS THE PERMANENCY IN THE MIDDLE OF A PARKING LOT.
UM, THE HONEST TRUTH IS I DON'T THINK THAT MOST OF THESE ARE GONNA OPERATE IN THE MIDDLE OF A PARKING LOT, BUT, UH, I DON'T WANNA HAVE CONCRETE STRUCTURES IN, IN THE MIDDLE OF A, OF A WALMART PARKING LOT.
BUT YOU WANT THE CONTAINER SHIELDED.
CAN I MAKE A RECOMMENDATION? YEAH, JUST AN IDEA.
IS THERE, AND I, I THINK WE TYPICALLY SHY AWAY FROM THIS, BUT IS IT, UM, THERE ARE TEMPORARY USES WITHIN OUR ZONING ORDINANCE, LIKE A CONSTRUCTION YARD, A SERVICE YARD, OR A CONSTRUCTION YARD.
AND SO BECAUSE THIS IS SO UP AND COMING, WHAT IF WE MADE IT A TEMPORARY USE KNOWING IT'S GONNA HAVE TO BE REVISED, BUT THEN WE HAVE A WAY IN 12 MONTHS OR 24 MONTHS TO SAY, OKAY, NOW IT'S GOTTA STOP AND WE'RE GONNA EDIT IT AT THAT POINT TO, AS WE GET MORE INFORMATION, WE JUST MAKE IT A TEMPORARY USE.
I WAS KIND OF GOING DOWN THE SAME PATH.
BUT TO, AND, AND WHAT MY QUESTION IS FOR THE STAFF, WE HAVE SEASONAL OUTDOOR STORAGE TODAY, RIGHT? GO TO ANY GROCERY STORE AND THEY'VE GOT FENCED OFF AREA WITH BAGS OF MULCH AND IT'S CALLED MERCHANDISE DISPLAY.
WHAT IS THE, A ALLOWABLE DURATION OF THAT IN OUR CURRENT ORDINANCE? AND LET ME, WHILE THEY LOOK THAT UP, I'LL ASK MY QUESTION BECAUSE THIS IS MY, WHERE I'M LEADING, BECAUSE THIS IS SUCH AN EMERGING CONCEPT, SUCH AN EMERGING BUSINESS, IF WE SAID WHATEVER THAT DURATION IS, AND I'M GONNA SAY IT'S SIX MONTHS, UM, IF WITHIN SIX MONTHS OF ESTABLISHING A DRONE OPERATION IN A CERTAIN LOCATION, THEY MUST THEN BUILD PERMANENT SCREENING.
BECAUSE IF THEY'VE GOT A NEW CLIENT AND THEY'RE GONNA PUT A TEMPORARY OPERATION UP WITHIN SIX MONTHS, THEY'RE GONNA KNOW IF IT'S GONNA GO OR NOT.
AND AT THAT POINT, THEY'RE GOTTA MAKE A COMMITMENT UP OR OUT.
WE'RE GONNA BE PERMANENT HERE.
THINK YOU'D HAVE TO GO 12 MONTHS, BUT MR. WELL, 24
[02:55:01]
TO MAKE IT.I I WOULD, UH, I WOULD ACTUALLY SUPPORT THAT, BUT I WOULD PROBABLY WANT IT TO BE MINIMUM 12 TO 24 MONTHS.
BUT I COULD DEFINITELY DO THAT.
PERHAPS THERE'S ANOTHER SUGGESTION, LIKE WITH THE PARKING, WE CAN PUT IT AT P AND Z'S DISCRETION TO WAIVE SCREENING REQUIREMENTS WITH THE SITE PLAN.
ANYWAY, I MEAN, THAT DOESN'T GET US AROUND MY MAIN PROBLEM, WHICH IS INCONSISTENCY.
THE LITTLE CONSTRUCTION GUY THAT RENTS AN OFFICE AND WANTS TO PUT A CONTAINER IN A TRAILER OUT THERE, HE'S GONNA GET THE LAW BROUGHT DOWN ON HIM AND HE'S GONNA BE GOING.
BUT RIGHT THERE THEY DO IT AND IT'S ALLOWED, WHERE'S THE CONSISTENCY? WHO WOULD'VE EVER PASSED THIS? IT'S ALLOWED TEMPORARILY.
AND THEN HE'S GONNA COME WATCH THIS AND HE'S GONNA KNOW IT WASN'T ME.
SO HOW WOULD YOU LIKE THAT? UH, MOTION TO RE REMOVE? WE APPROVE STAFF'S RECOMMENDATIONS, UM, WITH THE UNDERSTANDING THAT THE, UM, NO REQUIRED SCREENING IS GOOD FOR A PERIOD OF 12 MONTHS.
I JUST PUT IT APPEARS DISCRETION.
HOW ABOUT THE, MAY BE WAIVED AT DISCRETION, RIGHT? CAN I ASK SUFFICIENT AND OH, WE CAN, GRANTED, KEEP IN MIND THIS IS GONNA HAVE TO GO BACK, GO THROUGH COUNSEL, SORRY.
IN SECTION, UM, 1900, UH, 19.2 HUNDRED.
UM, ITEM SEVEN, IT IS ALREADY STATED THAT THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MAY WAIVE THESE REQUIREMENTS IF NO PUBLIC PURPOSE WOULD BE SERVED BY THE CONSTRUCTION OF A REQUIRED SCREEN.
SO IT'S ALREADY IN WHAT? IT'S ALREADY IN SECTION 19, IT'S ALREADY IN THE ORDINANCE THAT WE HAVE THIS, WHICH IS WHAT WE DID FOR THE CITY AND CONSISTENT AND ALSO TWO MONTHS AGO.
IT'S NOT ONE OTHER THING THAT I WANTED TO MENTION.
THEY HAVE THE OPTION OF PLACING THOSE, UM, CONTAINERS BEHIND A PRIMARY BUILDING.
SO IF, UH, HAVE, HAVING A SCREENING WALL OR LIVING SCREENING IS NOT AN OPTION BEHIND A PRIMARY BUILDING WILL BE AN OPTION.
MY UNDERSTANDING OF ARTICLE 19 IS THAT THERE'S SPECIFIC THINGS THAT HAVE TO BE MET IN ORDER FOR US TO EXEMPT IT.
IS THAT CORRECT? THE QUESTION, MY, MY UNDERSTANDING IN ARTICLE 19 IS THAT THERE'S SPECIFIC REASONS.
LIKE FOR INSTANCE, WE HAVE TO DETERMINE THAT IT DOESN'T SERVE ANY USE.
AND SO, OR THAT THE, THAT THE SCREENING ISN'T REQUIRED BECAUSE OF AN ELEVATION CHANGE.
I MEAN, IT'S THE SAME PROVISION THAT WE WROTE IN TO EXEMPT, I DON'T KNOW, 125 FEET OF LIVING SCREEN AT, UM, OVER AT LEGACY IN ALMA.
BUT THERE, IT MET ARTICLE 19, WHICH IS WHY I RECOMMENDED IT.
BUT PUTTING IT RIGHT OUT IN THE MIDDLE OF THE PARKING LOT, WE'RE NOT GONNA BE ABLE TO ARGUE THAT IT MEETS THE, THE STANDARDS THAT ARE IN ARTICLE 19.
SO IT'S THERE, BUT IT'S NOT THERE.
RIGHT? IT'S THERE, BUT IT DOESN'T APPLY IN THIS SITUATION.
I THINK IT, IT COULD BE, IT, IT, IT COULD BE A DIFFICULT, MORE DIFFICULT DECISION BECAUSE OF THE WORDING IN THE CURRENT ARTICLE.
WELL, BUT WE FOLLOWED THE WORDING THAN IT, WE WOULD HAVE TO DENY IT.
WE WOULD HAVE TO REQUIRE THE SCREENING.
SO AN OPTION MIGHT BE TO JUST GO THE PATH OF, OF ADDING THE ADDITIONAL EXCEPTION WITHIN THE DRONE STANDARDS, UM, THAT SAY WITH APPROVAL OF A SITE PLAN, VERY SIMILAR TO THAT 10%, UM, PARKING REDUCTION.
AND SO IT DOESN'T NECESSARILY HAVE TO BE TIED IN THE SAME WAY THAT ARTICLE 19 IS TO THE PUBLIC PURPOSE.
SO YES, IT'S A SEPARATE PARAGRAPH WITHIN THE ORDINANCE, GIVING P N Z THE OPPORTUNITY TO WAIVE SCREENING REQUIREMENTS.
ONE SECOND ON SITE PLAN APPROVAL.
IT, BASED ON THE COMPLEXITY OF THIS DISCUSSION, WOULD IT BE WISE TO LET THESE GUYS DO SOME WORK AND COME BACK TO US WITH A SPECIFIC RECOMMENDATION BASED ON THE CHALLENGES THIS GROUP SEES? I MEAN, YOU KNOW, ULTIMATELY, I DON'T KNOW HOW THIS IS GONNA VOTE, BUT THERE'S PROBABLY FIVE VOTES HERE FOR IT ONE WAY OR THE OTHER.
BUT IT SEEMS LIKE WE'RE REALLY TRYING TO PUT A SQUARE PEG IN AROUND HOLE.
AND IT'S NOT CLEAR TO ME WHAT WE'RE DOING.
AND I'M, I'M NOT SURE IT'S WISE TONIGHT.
I, I, I REALLY, I, I SUGGEST WE LET THEM GO BACK TO WORK ON THE CHALLENGES THAT HAVE BEEN PRESENTED AS OPPOSED TO CRAMMING THIS THROUGH TONIGHT.
I'D MAKE A MOTION TO TABLE THIS ITEM AND LET STAFF, UH, CONTINUE TO WORK ON IT AND BRING IT BACK.
I, WELL, WE HAD A MOTION AND A SECOND AND WE HAD A VOTE.
OH YEAH, SORRY, WE HAD A VOTE.
SO NOW WE HAVE ANOTHER MOTION AND A SECOND.
SO WE HAVE A MOTION TO TABLE WITH A SECOND BY COMMISSIONER CAREY, PLEASE VOTE.
WELL, LET'S JUST, LET'S DO THE VOTE AND THEN WE'LL SEE WHERE WE GO FROM THERE.
AND THAT ITEM FAILS THREE TO FIVE.
[03:00:01]
I MOVE, WE APPROVE STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION, SUBJECT TO THE ADDITION OF A PARAGRAPH, GIVING P AND Z THE ABILITY TO WAIVE SCREENING REQUIREMENTS THROUGH A SITE PLAN REVIEW.SECOND, AND CAN I CLARIFY, IS THAT WITH THE ORIGINAL OPEN OPEN STORAGE SCREENING REQUIREMENT OR THE ONE IN THE DRAFT TONIGHT? THE ONE THAT'S IN THE DRAFT TONIGHT? THAT'S WHAT YOU'VE TALKED ABOUT, RIGHT? YES.
AGAIN, THE, THE TONIGHT ALLOWS THE ONE, THE ONE TRAILER AND THE ONE STORAGE CONTAINER WITHOUT ANY SCREENING AT ALL.
SO ANY ADDITIONAL SCREENING COULD BE WAIVED BY P N Z.
AM I MISUNDERSTANDING THAT, CHRISTINA? I GUESS I, I THOUGHT THAT THE COMMISSION WAS HEADED TOWARDS REQUIRING THE ORIG, THE SCREENING AND THEN ALLOWING THE P AND Z TO PROVIDE, TO CLARIFY AN EXCEPTION.
SO I'LL, I'LL CLARIFY THE MOTION THAT THE ORDINANCE WILL REQUIRE SCREENING AS, UH, NORMALLY REQUIRED IN OUR STANDARD ORDINANCE, BUT P N Z HAS THE AUTHORITY TO WAIVE SCREENING REQUIREMENTS UNDER SITE PLAN REVIEW.
IS THAT SUFFICIENT? WHAT WE'RE GONNA
BASICALLY HERE'S, HERE'S THE THING GUYS.
THE PROPOSAL TONIGHT DOES NOT REQUIRE ANY SCREENING.
SO WE'RE GONNA REMOVE THAT FROM IT AND SAY THAT SCREENING IS REQUIRED, HOWEVER, WE HAVE THE AUTHORITY UNDER THE MOTION THAT I'M MAKING, AND THEY'RE, THEY'RE GONNA ADJUST THE ORDINANCE TO WAIVE SCREENING REQUIREMENTS BASED UPON THE OPERATIONS WHERE THEY'RE SET, WHERE'S THAT CONTAINER GONNA BE? WE'RE GONNA HAVE INFORMATION THAT WILL ALLOW US TO WAIVE IT OR NOT WAIVE IT, RIGHT? SO WE HAVE THE FLEXIBILITY TO EITHER REQUIRE THE SCREENING OR WAIVE IT.
SO WE DEFAULT TO, WE'RE DEFAULTING TO SCREENING WITH THE ABILITY TO WAIVE IT AS PART OF THE SITE PLAN REVIEW.
RIGHT? BUT THE PROBLEM CHAIRMAN DOWNS IS THAT THERE'S ALREADY PROVISIONS WITHIN ARTICLE 19 THAT ALLOW US TO WAIVE IT.
SO WE WOULD HAVE TO COME UP WITH A DIFFERENT SET OF STANDARDS TO WAIVE IT FOR THIS.
WE WOULD HAVE TWO DIFFERENT STANDARDS TO EXEMPT OURSELVES FROM REQUIRING WHAT WE SAY IS NECESSARY FOR A HEALTH AND SAFETY ISSUE.
AND THAT'S FROM AN ENVO ENFORCEMENT STANDPOINT, THAT'S JUST GONNA BE A MESS.
AM I RIGHT MR. BELL? WE WOULD HAVE TWO DIFFERENT STANDARDS TO EXEMPT SOMEONE FROM DOING SOMETHING.
I GUESS THE QUESTION IS, BECAUSE IF WE FOLLOW THE FIRST STANDARD, THE FIRST STANDARD THAT'S ALREADY IN OUR ZONING ORDINANCE DOESN'T ALLOW US TO DO IT BASED ON THE STANDARD THAT'S THERE.
YEAH, I DON'T THINK THERE'S, THERE'S MANY PROVISIONS WHERE WE HAVE MULTIPLE STANDARDS, SO I DON'T NECESSARILY SEE THE STAFF HAS ANY CONCERN WITH TREATING IT DIFFERENTLY OR YEAH, WE, WE CAN MAKE THAT WORK.
WE, WE HAVE A, WE HAVE A, NO, WE'RE GONNA GET THIS DONE TONIGHT.
I DON'T CARE IF WE'RE HERE TILL MIDNIGHT.
'CAUSE WE PUT STAFF THROUGH, I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY HOURS OF THIS GUYS WE WE'RE GONNA MAKE A DECISION TONIGHT.
SO TO BE CLEAR, TO BE CLEAR, THE RECOMMENDATION TONIGHT SAYS THAT THERE ARE NO SCREENING REQUIREMENTS.
WE ARE SCRATCHING THAT FROM THE RECOMMENDATION.
THERE ARE SCREENING REQUIREMENTS.
HOWEVER, WE ARE ADDING IN A PARAGRAPH THAT GIVES P N Z THE AUTHORITY TO WAIVE SCREENING DURING SITE PLAN REVIEW.
WHICH MEANS THAT WE'LL GET TO SEE EVERY INSTANCE THAT COMES FORWARD AND HAVE THE ABILITY TO DETERMINE IS THAT IN THE RIGHT PLACE WHERE IT DOESN'T NEED SCREENING, OR IS IT IN A PLACE WHERE IT DOES NEED SCREENING? IS IT A PERMANENT INSTALLATION OR IS IT A TEMPORARY INSTALLATION? CAN WE CLARIFY THAT TO MAKE SURE THAT IT'S ONLY FOR THE STORAGE PART OF THE INSTALLATION, NOT THE FLIGHT OPERATIONS PART.
'CAUSE I THINK THAT'S THE PART THAT REALLY GIVES THEM PROBLEMS BECAUSE THAT'S, WELL, BUT THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT OF THIS, RIGHT? IS WE'RE TALKING ABOUT SCREENING FOR STORAGE, RIGHT? NOT FOR OPERATION.
JUST WANNA MAKE SURE WE'RE CLEAR ON THAT.
SECOND AS CLARIFIED, I DON'T KNOW IF I CAN ZOOM IN HERE.
THIS IS THE ORIGINAL LANGUAGE FROM THE LAST MEETING.
UM, BUT YOU GUYS CAN'T HEAR ME.
THIS IS THE ORIGINAL LANGUAGE FROM THE LAST MEETING.
UM, WHEN LOCATED AT GRADE, ANY GOODS, MATERIALS, CONTAINERS, TRAILERS, OR OTHER EQUIPMENT MUST BE SCREENED ACCORDING TO THE REQUIREMENTS FOR OPEN STORAGE IN SECTION 19.2 HUNDRED.
LANDING PADS ARE EXEMPT FROM THE SCREENING REQUIREMENT.
SO WE DON'T HAVE TO MAKE A SPECIAL THAT WAS THE
AND THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING WE'RE DOING THOUGH.
[03:05:01]
AND THEN WE'RE GIVING OURSELVES THE AUTHORITY UNDER SITE, AT SITE PLAN REVIEW TO WAIVE SCREENING REQUIREMENTS FOR STORAGE.SO WE COULD ADD TO THE END OF THAT, UM, SOMETHING LIKE THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MAY WAIVE THIS REQUIREMENT WITH APPROVAL OF A SITE PLAN.
SO THEY'LL, THESE DRONE, THESE DRONE OPERATING COMPANIES WILL COME BACK TO US WHENEVER THEY'RE READY TO SUBMIT PLANS TO ACTUALLY START OPERATING WITHIN OUR CITY.
THEY'RE GONNA SET UP A DEAL, THEY'RE GONNA COME AND THEY'RE GONNA SAY, HEY, WE'RE GONNA SET UP A DRONE OPERATION NOW WE'RE COMPLYING, BY THE WAY, WE ASK YOU TO, UNDER YOUR AUTHORITY, WAIVE THE SCREENING REQUIREMENTS BECAUSE WE'RE GONNA PLACE OUR STORAGE CONTAINER BEHIND THE MAIN BUILDING.
SO LET ME, WELL, I THINK THAT WAS BEFORE, BEFORE WE VOTE, I'M GONNA ASK OUR LEGAL PERSON, IS IT, IS THAT, IS THE MOTION CLEAR ENOUGH OR DO YOU WANT ME TO RESTATE IT? I THINK I UNDERSTAND.
IT REALLY HELPED THAT, UM, CHRISTINA SEBASTIAN PUT THE LANGUAGE UP ON THE OKAY.
AND THAT ITEM CARRIES SIX TO TWO.
ALRIGHT, LET, LET'S TAKE FIVE MINUTES.
WE'RE RECONVENE TO REGULAR SESSION AT 10 14.
THANK YOU FOR TURNING MY MIC ON, SIR.
UH, AND WE WILL MOVE ON TO ITEM
[4. (CC) Public Hearing: Zoning Case 2023-023 - Request to amend Article 8 (Definitions), Article 15 (Use-specific Regulations), and related sections of the Zoning Ordinance to allow temporary emergency shelters during life-threatening weather events. Project #ZC2023-023. Petitioner: City of Plano (Legislative consideration)]
FOUR.AGENDA ITEM NUMBER FOUR, PUBLIC HEARING, ZONING CASE.
REQUEST TO AMEND ARTICLE EIGHT DEFINITIONS.
ARTICLE 15, USE SPECIFIC REGULATIONS AND RELATED SECTIONS OF THE ZONING ORDINANCE TO ALLOW TEMPORARY EMERGENCY SHELTERS DURING LIFE THREATENING WEATHER EVENTS.
THIS IS LEGISLATIVE CONSIDERATION.
MY NAME'S CONNOR CAMPBELL, AND I'M A PLANNER WITH THE PLANNING DEPARTMENT.
TONIGHT WE ARE HERE TO REQUEST TO AMEND THE ZONING ORDINANCE TO ALLOW EMERGENCY SHELTERS DURING LIFE-THREATENING WEATHER EVENTS.
UM, SOME, SO SOME BACKGROUND ON THIS ISSUE.
UM, STAFF RECEIVED A LETTER OF INTENT FROM THE SALVATION ARMY, UH, OPERATOR OF THE PLANO OVERNIGHT WARMING, UH, STATION TO OPERATE DURING THE DAYTIME HOURS IN THE WINTER.
UM, THE PLANNING ZONING COMMISSION CALLED A PUBLIC HEARING ON THIS MATTER ON THIS AT THE SEPTEMBER 5TH, 2023 MEETING.
SO SOME BACKGROUND ON THE PLANO OVERNIGHT WARMING STATION REGULATIONS.
UM, RIGHT NOW THE PLAINTIFF OVERNIGHT WARMING STATION OPERATES UNDER SPECIFIC USE PERMIT NUMBER 90 FOR HOUSEHOLD CARE INSTITUTIONS.
UM, WITH THAT SS U P, THERE ARE A NUMBER OF RESTRICTIONS ON THE NUMBER OF INDIVIDUALS SERVED AND ITS OPERATING HOURS.
UM, RIGHT NOW, AS IT STANDS, UM, WE BELIEVE THAT THE NEED HAS OUTSTRIPPED THE ALLOWANCES, UM, UNDER THAT SPECIFIC USE PERMIT.
UM, AND RIGHT NOW, AS IT STANDS, EMERGENCY OPERATIONS MAY ARE FACED WITH EITHER TURNING INDIVIDUALS AWAY OR BEING NON-COMPLIANT WITH THE ZONING ORDINANCE.
SO WHERE WE ARE PROPOSING TO MAKE THESE CHANGES ARE TO THE TEMPORARY ACCESSORY HOUSING SHELTERS REGULATIONS.
UM, AS IT EXISTS RIGHT NOW, UH, TEMPORARY ACCESSORY HOUSING SHELTERS ARE ALLOWED AS AN ACCESSORY USE TO RELIGIOUS FACILITIES, UM, WITH RESTRICTIONS ON THE NUMBER OF INDIVIDUALS SERVED AND THEIR OPERATING DAYS.
THEY ARE RESTRICTED TO 14 PEOPLE MAXIMUM, AND THEY'RE CURRENTLY NOT ALLOWED TO OPERATE MORE THAN 30 CALENDAR DAYS PER YEAR.
SO THE PROPOSED CHANGES, SO, UM, WHAT WE'RE, UH, PROPOSING IS TO, UH, IS TO EXEMPT THE RESTRICTIONS ON NUMBER OF INDIVIDUALS AND OPERATING DAYS OF TEMPORARY ACCESSORY HOUSING SHELTERS, UM, DURING LIFE THREAT, UH, LIFE THREATENING WEATHER CONDITIONS, UM, AS TURNED BY AS DETERMINED BY THE CITY MANAGER OR DURING DECLARED DISASTERS IN THE CITY OF PLANO THAT CREATE A NEED FOR TEMPORARY HOUSING UNTIL SUCH DISASTER STATUSES RESCINDED.
UM, THE EXISTING REGULATIONS FOR TEMPORARY ACCESSORY HOUSING SHELTERS DURING NON-EMERGENCIES WOULD STAY IN PLACE.
UM, YOU WOULD ALSO SEE SOME SMALLER CHANGES.
UM, WE WOULD, RIGHT NOW, AS IT, UH, SITS THE REGULATIONS FOR TEMPORARY, UH, ACCESSORY HOUSING SHELTERS SIT IN THE DEFINITION, WE WOULD MOVE THAT TO ARTICLE 15 UNDER USE SPECIFIC REGULATIONS JUST AS BEST PRACTICE.
UM, WE ALSO MADE SOME SMALL CHANGES.
UM, IN SOME OF THE WORDING YOU'LL SEE WE REMOVE THE WORDS INDIGENT, UM, INDIVIDUALS, UM, JUST TO ALLOW, UH, BROADER INDIVIDUALS TO BE SERVED UNDER THE ZONING ORDINANCE.
[03:10:01]
UM, AND THEN WE ALSO REMOVE SOME REDUNDANT LANGUAGE AROUND NONPROFITS, UM, TO REDUCE IT TO, UM, RELIGIOUS INSTITUTIONS ONLY.UM, SO STAFF REVIEWED, UM, TEMPORARY EMERGENCY SHELTER REQUIREMENTS IN A FEW CITIES IN THE DALLAS-FORT WORTH AREA.
THESE INCLUDE DALLAS, GARLAND, IRVING, AND MCKINNEY.
UM, THESE ARE CITIES THAT EITHER THAT HAVE THESE TYPES OF PROGRAMS AS WELL, THAT ARE SIMILAR TO PLANOS OR HAVE MORE ROBUST PROGRAMS, AND THERE'S NO, UM, ONE CLEAR DIRECTION WHEN IT COMES TO LAND USE POLICIES IN THESE CITIES.
UM, SO WE'RE, UH, THERE, THERE'S NO SET DECISION, UM, IN THE AREA WHEN IT COMES TO THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN.
UM, THE, THE PROPOSED AMENDMENTS ARE IN CONFORMANCE WITH THE GUIDING POLICIES, THE LAND USE POLICY, LAND USE ACTION ONE, UH, THE SPECIAL NEEDS HOUSING POLICY AND SPECIAL HOUSING NEEDS ACTION.
THE EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT POLICY.
EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT ACTION THREE.
EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT ACTION FOUR, EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT ACTION SIX.
AND THE SOCIAL SERVICES POLICY.
WE DID NOT RECEIVE ANY RESPONSES TO THIS ZONING CASE AND STAFF RECOMMENDS, UH, THAT, UH, WE APPROVE, UH, AS PER THE ZONING ORDINANCE AMENDMENTS NOTED IN THE STAFF REPORT.
I'M AVAILABLE FOR ANY QUESTIONS.
UM, JUST QUICKLY, THIS IS FOCUSED PURELY ON EMERGENCY DISASTER DETERMINED BY THE CITY MANAGER, OR I GUESS PROBABLY SOMETHING DECLARED BY THE GOVERNOR OR SOMETHING, OR I'M ASSUMING THE GOVERNOR WOULD LEAD THE WAY OR PERHAPS, YOU KNOW, SOMETHING, RIGHT? YEAH, WE'RE THINKING, YOU KNOW, WE'RE THINKING SPECIFICALLY AROUND THE WARMING STATION.
AND THEN WE'RE ALSO THINKING TO KIND OF ACCOUNT FOR EVENTS LIKE, YOU KNOW, SAY A TORNADO COMES THROUGH PLANO AND YOU KNOW, THERE'S A NEED FOR TEMPORARY HOUSING, UM, TO ALLOW THESE, YOU KNOW, RELIGIOUS FACILITIES TO OPEN THEIR DOORS TO THESE FOLKS WHO NEED ASSISTANCE.
AND FOR THE STANDARD TEMPORARY HOUSING REQUIREMENTS, WE'RE NOT CHANGING THOSE.
NO, THIS IS ONLY FOR EMERGENCIES.
SO THIS, THIS, UH, THE TEMPORARY ACCESSORY HOUSING IS ALLOWED AS AN ACCESSORY USE TO RELIGIOUS FACILITIES.
WE ARE JUST MAKING AN EXCEPTION FOR EMERGENCIES.
AND I THINK I WAS ON COUNCIL WHEN WE PUT THOSE IN FOR THE RELIGIOUS FACILITIES, AND WE SPENT THREE MEETINGS GOING OVER THAT LIMIT AND STUFF.
ULTIMATELY, THIS IS MEANT TO BENEFIT CITIZENS OF PLANO IN TIME OF AN EMERGENCY THAT CERTAIN REGULATIONS ARE EASED SO THAT THERE IS MORE ROOM FOR THEM IN EITHER A CHURCH OR THROUGH LIKE THE WARMING STATION OPERATIONS.
SO THIS IS WHERE I'M CONFUSED ABOUT THIS WHOLE ORDINANCE UNDER AN EMERGENCY DECLARATION TODAY, WHETHER IT'S THE GOVERNOR OR THE MAYOR OR THE COUNTY COMMISSIONER, THEY HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO WAIVE ALL OF THIS ANYWAY, CORRECT? UM, I DON'T, I'M NOT EXACTLY SURE MS. SEBASTIAN, DO YOU HAVE NOPE, GO AHEAD.
UH, MICHELLE, I CAN TELL YOU WHAT WE DID UNDER C I D AND, AND THAT WAS THAT, UM, THE COUNCIL GAVE THE CITY MANAGER AUTHORITY TO WAIVE ORDINANCES WHEN REQUIRED DURING, UM, THE COVID EMERGENCY.
UM, I, I BELIEVE THE MAYOR HAS SOME AUTHORITY, UM, BEFORE A COUNCIL MEETING.
AND ALSO THE EMERGENCY, THERE'S AN EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT ORDINANCE THAT ALLOWS AN EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT ORDER TO TAKE PRECEDENCE OVER OTHER ORDINANCES IN THE CITY.
SO, UM, THIS WOULD ALLOW IMMEDIATE ACTION AND GIVE CLEAR DIRECTION TO THE LEADERSHIP HERE AND LET THEM MOVE FORWARD WITHOUT HAVING TO WORRY ABOUT GETTING COUNCIL AUTHORITY FIRST OR HAVING TO CALL A SPECIAL MEETING IN ORDER TO GET COUNCIL APPROVAL FOR A MAYOR'S ACTION.
UM, BUT I HAVE TO TELL YOU, THAT'S WHAT WE DID IN C O V I D.
AND I KNOW THERE WAS A LOT AT THE LEGISLATURE TO CHANGE EMERGENCY POWERS, AND I HAVE NOT BRUSHED UP ON IT.
SO I'M JUST TELLING YOU WHAT HAPPENED LAST TIME WE COULD CHANGE.
THE REASON I ASK IS I, I SEE THIS ORDINANCE TRYING TO REALLY ADDRESS TWO TO ME VERY CLEARLY DIFFERENT ISSUES.
THE SALVATION ARMY'S WARMING STATION IS, TO ME, COMPLETELY A DIFFERENT ISSUE THAN A 72 HOUR POWER BLACKOUT AND EVERYBODY'S FREEZING IN THEIR HOUSE OR A TORNADO.
[03:15:01]
TO ME, THOSE ARE COMPLETELY SEPARATE ISSUES, AND WE'RE, I FEEL LIKE WE'RE TRYING TO ADDRESS 'EM WITH THE SAME, WE'RE TRYING TO USE ONE OF THEM TO JUSTIFY THE OTHER, OR VICE VERSA.AND THAT'S WHAT I'M STRUGGLING WITH, BECAUSE I FEEL LIKE IN THE EMERGENCY DECLARATION, I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT.
I MEAN, I, I, I THINK EVERYBODY'S TORNADO COMES THROUGH.
WE GET ANOTHER WINTER MAGEDDON PROBLEM.
MY CONCERN IS THAT IT'S OPENING A DOOR THAT BE, AND WE'RE PUTTING THE SALVATION ARMY'S PROGRAM INTO THIS, WHERE WE OUGHT JUST BE AMENDING THEIR S U P.
AND SO MY QUESTION IS, SHOULDN'T WE SEPARATE THESE TWO ISSUES AND ADDRESSING S U P SEPARATELY FROM A CITYWIDE ORDINANCE? IS THAT, WOULD THAT BE CLEANER? UM, I MEAN, SO ONE OF THE REASONS THAT WE WANTED TO BRING THIS A AS A LAND IS IN THIS, IS BECAUSE THAT WE'VE ALSO RECEIVED, IT'S NOT, IT'S NO LONGER JUST THE SALVATION ARMY WANTING TO OPERATE.
UM, WE'VE, UH, SPECIFICALLY, UM, HEARD EXPRESSED INTEREST FROM THE EAST PLANO ISLAMIC CENTER WANTING TO OPERATE POTENTIALLY IN CONJUNCTION WITH THAT.
AND SO THIS WOULD ALLOW THEM TO OPERATE UNDER THE ZONING ORDINANCE.
UM, AND SO THAT IT'S KIND OF ADDRESSING THAT ISSUE, UM, RATHER THAN JUST ADJUSTING THE S U P, WE CAN LET THEM WORK TOGETHER AND THEN THEY HAVE, UM, SOLID LEGAL GROUNDING TO BOTH OPERATE AT THE SAME TIME.
I'M PROBABLY AS CONFUSED AS
UM, SO TELL ME IF I'M NOT STATING THIS, UM, CLEARLY SALVATION ARMY'S ISSUE IS THEY WOULD HAVE TO, RIGHT NOW, THEY DON'T REQUIRE AN EMERGENCY DECLARATION TO OPERATE THEIR WARMING STATION.
UM, THE S U P HAS LIMITS ON CAPS ON IT, UH, BUT IF WE BRING IN THIS TEMPORARY HOUSING ORDINANCE, HOW DOES THAT HELP THEM? THEY'RE NOT, WELL, I GUESS SALVATION ARMY IS A RELIGIOUS FACILITY.
I MIGHT JUST BE ANSWERING MY QUESTION.
YES, THEY'RE CONSIDERING THEM A RELIGIOUS FACILITY.
UM, BUT THAT WOULD STILL REQUIRE AN EMERGENCY ORDINANCE.
SO IF, IF A CASE HAPPENS WHERE THERE IS A NEED THAT THEY USUALLY WOULD ADDRESS, BUT NOBODY HAS DECLARED THIS AN EMERGENCY, THEY'RE STILL OUTTA LUCK.
I THINK THIS WAS DRIVEN, I MAY BE WRONG, BUT BY SOME OF THE WEATHER WE'VE HAD THE PAST TWO FEBRUARYS, RIGHT.
'CAUSE THEY'RE, THEY'RE DESIGNED FOR BEING AN OVERNIGHT WARMING STATION.
AND DURING THE DAY IT WAS SO COLD, BUT THEY WEREN'T ALLOWED TO OPERATE AND, AND, AND HAVE PEOPLE.
SO THAT'S WHY THIS IS KIND OF, I THINK, BOILED INTO THIS, UH, THIS DAY.
I'M GONNA TRY TO STEP IN FOR A MOMENT HERE.
THERE'S REALLY TWO ISSUES HERE.
ONE IS WORKING WITH THE PLANO OVERNIGHT WARMING STATION.
THAT'S A GROUP OF VOLUNTEERS THAT WORK IN THE CITY.
THEY CURRENTLY ARE CONTRACTED WITH THE SALVATION ARMY.
AND SO THAT'S REALLY BEEN THE URGENT DRIVING ISSUE, UM, WITH THE CITY BECAUSE WE'VE BEEN WORKING TO TRY TO FIND AN ALTERNATE LOCATION.
UM, THE ALTERNATE LOCATION THAT WE'VE FOUND.
WE HAVE A ZONING PROBLEM AT THAT LOCATION, THE EAST PLANO ISLAMIC CENTER.
IT'S RESEARCH TECHNOLOGY ZONING.
SO THIS IS THE ZONING PROPOSAL THAT WOULD ALLOW US TO, UM, REALLY HAVE MORE FLEXIBILITY WITH THE ZONING ORDINANCE BECAUSE RELIGIOUS FACILITIES ARE ALLOWED IN MOST ANY LAND USE CATEGORY.
THIS TEMPORARY HOUSING FACILITY ALLOWS US JUST MORE FLEXIBILITY TO PROVIDE A PARTNER WITH OTHER RELIGIOUS ORGANIZATIONS CITYWIDE, UM, IN PROVIDING, UM, WHAT'S ESSENTIALLY EMERGENCY SERVICES TO PEOPLE DURING REALLY CRISIS, WHETHER EVENTS, WHETHER IT'S TOO HOT OR TOO COLD.
WE DON'T WANT PEOPLE DYING ON THE STREETS OF PLANO.
SO WE NEED TO BE ABLE TO PROVIDE THIS SERVICE, AND IT GIVES US OPPORTUNITIES TO PARTNER WITH WHOEVER'S AVAILABLE TO PROVIDE THIS SERVICE IN THE CITY.
SO THAT'S, THAT'S KIND OF SOLUTION NUMBER ONE.
AND THEN, UM, AT THE SAME TIME, WE THOUGHT DURING A DISASTER SITUATION, WHICH, UM, WE'VE HAD REALLY, I THINK, UM, MOST MEMORABLY PERHAPS, UH, WITH THE HURRICANE KATRINA, FOR THOSE OF YOU AROUND, DURING THAT TIME, WE HAD A BUNCH OF PEOPLE COMING INTO THE CITY MM-HMM.
[03:20:01]
WE WANT, UM, WE HAVE CAPACITY IN CERTAIN LOCATIONS.WE PARTNER WITH CERTAIN ORGANIZATIONS, UM, TO PROVIDE HOUSING, AND THE CITY PREPARES FOR THAT, UM, THROUGH PARTNERSHIP WITH FEMA, THROUGH OUR EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT DEPARTMENT.
BUT WE HAVE THAT, IT'S PREPARED, IT'S SET UP IN ADVANCE.
IT'S NOT AS THOUGH WE'RE JUST KNOCKING ON DOORS WHO CAN DO THIS.
SO WE JUST WANNA MAKE SURE WE'RE PREPARED FOR THAT.
AND WE DON'T HAVE ZONING CONCERNS OR ANYTHING THAT'S REALLY HINDERING US.
SO THAT'S THE PURPOSE BEHIND THIS REQUEST.
AND I'M AVAILABLE FOR OTHER QUESTIONS.
YOU MIGHT HAVE BEEN A LONG TIME SINCE I'VE SEEN YOU ON THAT SIDE OF THE GUYS
WELL, YEAH, BUT I'M NOT SITTING THERE LIKE, I'M HERE.
YEAH, DON'T RUN AWAY BECAUSE I MEAN, THIS POPPED UP QUICK.
SO AGAIN, MAYBE I'M BREATHING THIS WRONG, BUT, UM, THIS WILL STILL REQUIRE A, THE TRIGGERING EVENT WILL BE DETERMINED BY THE CITY MANAGER FOR THE CITY MANAGER AND OR SOME OTHER ENTITY, LEGAL ENTITY, TO DECLARE SOMETHING A DISASTER.
AND I'M NOT SURE THE LAST TWO FEBRUARYS WITH A CODE.
I DON'T THINK WE HAD ANYTHING DECLARED AS AN EMERGENCY.
NO, JUST TO CLARIFY WHAT WE, IN THE PAST IN THE ORDINANCE, WE HAD A SET TEMPERATURE, I THINK IT WAS 35 DEGREES, I BELIEVE.
AND WE JUST THOUGHT IT'D BE EASIER.
IT'S KIND OF, OR DESIGNEE ESSENTIALLY IS WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT IS THAT WE JUST ALLOW ESSENTIALLY CITY MANAGER OR STAFF ESSENTIALLY IS WHAT THAT MEANS IS WE HAVE A STANDARD THAT'S MAINTAINED BY STAFF.
THAT'S CODE WORD FOR STAFF IS THE CITY MANAGER TO DETERMINE, UH, WHAT, WHEN IT'S TOO COLD OR WHEN IT'S TOO HOT.
SO THE SECOND QUESTION IS A STRIKETHROUGH ON THE WORD ONLY.
AFTER JUST FACILITY, DOES THIS GIVE OPENING OR ALLOWANCE FOR A NONPROFIT ENTITY? UM, LET'S ASSUME THE SALVATION ARMY STOPS BEING OUR PARTNER WITH THE WARMING STATION, AND ALI GROUP COMES IN AS A NOT-FOR-PROFIT OR WHAT HAVE YOU.
DOES THAT STRIKE THROUGH? IS THAT ENOUGH TO ALLOW NO, A NOT-FOR-PROFIT ENTITY TO NO, IT WILL BE ONLY A RELIGIOUS FACILITY AND HAS TO BE, IT HAS TO BE RELIGIOUS, AND IT'S STILL, THEY HAVE TO OFFER IT FOR FREE.
SO YOU CAN TURN A PROFIT WHILE YOU'RE OFFERING IT FOR FREE.
SO WHAT WE THOUGHT, NO, I'M SAYING NOT-FOR-PROFIT.
IT'S, IT, IT'S, IT, IT SAYS YOU HAVE TO BE A RELIGIOUS FACILITY, BUT I BELIEVE THE LANGUAGE IN THERE IS THAT IT'S FREE HOUSING.
AND THAT'S WHY WE THOUGHT IT WAS SOMEWHAT DUPLICATIVE THAT IT'S, UM, DO WE HAVE THE LANGUAGE IN THE SLIDES? WE DO.
SORRY, I WAS LISTENING, BUT ALSO WORKING
SO WE THOUGHT IF YOU'RE OFFERING FREE LODGING, HOW ARE YOU TURNING A PROFIT? NO, NO, I'M NOT.
HE'S SAYING THAT HE'S ASKING ABOUT, I'M SAYING NON.
IF SOMEBODY OPENS UP A NONPROFIT AND JUST SAYS, WELL, ROTARY, NO, WE'RE GONNA DO THAT EMERGENCY SHELTER.
OH, THEN IF I'M, I'M, OH, YOU'RE JUST SAYING, DO THEY HAVE TO BE A RELIGIOUS I'M NOT RELIGIOUS.
I MISUNDERSTOOD YOUR QUESTION.
UM, THEN THEY WOULD NOT, THEY WOULD NOT QUALIFY BECAUSE I THINK THE ISSUE HERE IS REALLY ABOUT LEVERAGING THE RELIGIOUS LAND USE BECAUSE OF ITS APPLICABILITY CITYWIDE, REALLY, THAT'S THE, BECAUSE OF THINGS LIKE, UM, RUPPA, YOU KNOW, RELIGIOUS LAND USES HAVE SPECIAL PRIVILEGES, AND SO IT, IT'S ALLOWED PRETTY MUCH CITYWIDE.
AND WE THOUGHT THAT WAS, WOULD GIVE US MORE FLEXIBILITY.
I'LL LEAVE THE LEGAL SCHOLARS TO ARGUE.
WHAT IS RELIGION? COMMISSIONER KONG? THANK YOU.
UM, MY QUESTION IS THAT ONCE WE DECLARE THE, UM, EMERGENCY OR, UM, DISASTERS, AND WE, ALL THE SHELTERS ARE EXEMPT FROM NUMBER OF INDIVIDUALS AND THE LENGTH OF STAY, HOW DO WE STOP IT? I MEAN, IF, IF IT'S EVERYBODY CAN LIVE THERE FOREVER FOR FREE, HOW DO WE STOP IT? HOW DO WE SAY THIS IS OVER, YOU GOTTA GO BACK TO YOUR HOMES.
IT'S ONLY DURING THAT PERIOD OF THE DISASTER.
SO THAT'S, THAT'S HOW IT WOULD BE STOPPED, IS ONCE THE DISASTER'S OVER, DO WE HAVE A PROTOCOL RIGHT NOW TO DEFINE WHEN IS THE DISASTER? WHEN THE DISASTER IS OVER, WILL THE CITY MANAGERS ANNOUNCE THAT, OKAY, NOW THE DISASTER IS OVER, EVERYBODY SHOULD GO HOME.
RIGHT? DO WE, IS THERE A PROTOCOL RIGHT NOW? YES.
I MEAN, THE CITY MANAGER, I THINK IS ONLY DETERMINING THE TIME OF THE HOT AND COLD TIMES.
[03:25:01]
DISASTER TIMEFRAME IS DETERMINED BY, UM, I THINK DISASTER TIMEFRAMES ARE, AND I'M SORRY, I'M, UH, TRYING TO REMEMBER WHERE WE LANDED WAS TWO OPTIONS.IT'S A DECLARATION DETERMINED AS DETERMINED BY THE CITY MANAGER.
SO THE LIFE-THREATENING WEATHER, WEATHER CONDITIONS ARE DETERMINED BY THE CITY MANAGER AND THEN DECLARED DISASTERS IN THE CITY OF PLANO.
SO IT DECLARED DISASTERS DETERMINED BY THE STATE.
AND THERE ARE DEFINITIONS, UM, IN EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT.
THAT IS A, THAT'S A DEFINITION IN THE STATE, RIGHT? THEY'LL DECLARE, OKAY, WE ARE IN DISASTER.
AND FROM THAT MOMENT ON, ALL THE FACILITY WILL OPEN TO UNLIMITED NUMBER OF INDIVIDUALS TO UNLIMITED TIME OF STAY.
THERE'S, THERE'S A END TO THE DISASTER DECLARATION.
BUT OUR ORDINANCE RIGHT NOW, REID, IS LIKE, IT'S AN EXCEPTION, RIGHT? SO IF IT'S DECLARED DISASTER, THEN ALL THE RESTRICTIONS ARE EXEMPT.
I THINK THAT WE HEAR ALL THE TIME, RIGHT? THE GOVERNOR'S DECLARED A STATE OF DISASTER, RIGHT? RIGHT.
BUT YOU NEVER HEAR, THE GOVERNOR HAS NOW DECLARED THAT THE STATE OF DISASTER IS OVER.
RIGHT? SO IT FEELS LIKE IT'S OPEN-ENDED, BUT THERE IS ACTUALLY A END, A TIMEFRAME, AND WE CAN CONFIRM THAT.
BUT MY UNDERSTANDING FROM TALKING TO THE DIRECTOR OF EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT IS THAT THAT'S A SET TIMEFRAME.
YOU DON'T GET FUNDING FOREVER.
YOU DON'T GET, YOU KNOW, JUST LIKE THAT, YOU KNOW, THEY BRING IN FEMA TRAILERS FOR HOUSING.
THEY DON'T GET TO STAY THERE FOREVER.
THERE'S, THERE'S SET TIMEFRAMES WHEN YOU'RE QUALIFIED FOR DISASTER ASSISTANCE.
AND THERE'S SEVERAL PEOPLE THAT ARE WANTING TO TALK HERE.
BUT JUST KEEP IN MIND, GUYS, THIS IS THE WAY WE ALREADY OPERATE.
WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO IS MAKE THE CITY MORE EFFICIENT WHEN WE'RE OPERATING IN A TIME OF AN EMERGENCY.
THAT'S, THAT'S ALL WE'RE TRYING TO DO HERE, IS MAKE US MORE EFFICIENT.
SO WE CAN, WE CAN GET TOO FAR INTO THE WEEDS WITH THIS AND, AND ASSUME THAT SOMETHING NEFARIOUS IS GOING ON.
BUT ALL WE'RE REALLY TRYING TO DO IS MAKE IT EASIER FOR THE CITY TO OPERATE IN TIMES OF NEED FOR THOSE THAT NEED IT.
THAT'S, THAT'S REALLY ALL WE'RE TRYING TO DO, MR. BRONSKI.
SO THE SALVATION ARMY, UH, MAKES THE COMMENT IN THEIR LETTER, UH, ABOUT PROVIDING SERVICES INCLUDED, BUT NOT LIMITED TO MEDICAL SCREENING, UH, SECURING EACH INDIVIDUAL'S BELONGINGS.
UH, UM, ARE, ARE WE TAKING THE HEALTH CODES AND THINGS LIKE THAT INTO CONSIDERATION, UH, AS WE'RE LOOKING AT THESE DIFFERENT FACILITIES TO BE SURE THAT IF WE'RE DOING MEDICAL SCREENINGS AND OTHER RELATED SERVICES, WHAT THAT COULD BE AND HOW THAT COULD, AS FAR AS HOSPITAL OR, RIGHT.
I, I CANNOT SAY THAT I'M ACTIVELY INVOLVED WITH THAT PROCESS.
I KNOW THAT IT DOES INVOLVE THE FIRE DEPARTMENT.
IT DOES INVOLVE THE NEIGHBORHOOD SERVICES DEPARTMENT, OUR EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT DEPARTMENT.
SO IT IS A, UH, COLLECTION OF, UH, QUALIFIED INDIVIDUALS, UM, UH, THAT ARE, AGAIN, OUR PARTNERSHIP WITH VOLUNTEERS AND NONPROFIT ORGANIZATIONS.
SO, UM, AGAIN, THE PLANNING DEPARTMENT IS NOT PART OF THAT TEAM.
SO I DON'T KNOW A LOT OF THE DETAILS, BUT I DO KNOW IT'S A CROSS SECTION OF THE COMMUNITY THAT'S INVOLVED WITH PROVIDING THOSE PROGRAMS. SO THEY WOULD BE INSPECTING THOSE, UH, RELIGIOUS FACILITIES THAT WISH TO PROVIDE THIS, UH, TO MAKE SURE THAT IN CASE OF AN EMERGENCY, THAT THEY'RE ABLE TO BE UP TO CODE.
I DO KNOW THAT THAT HAS BEEN A PART OF THE PROCESS.
I'VE BEEN ON PHONE CALLS WITH BUILDING INSPECTIONS AND PROPERTY STANDARDS WORKING ON SPECIFIC CODE RELATED ISSUES FOR THE SALVATION ARMY, SPECIFICALLY RELATED TO PROVIDING THOSE SERVICES.
SO MY NEXT QUESTION IS, UH, I KNOW, UH, THAT WE HAVE TALKED ABOUT 35 DEGREES BEING COLD POINT.
WHAT'S THE UPPER POINT, UH, FOR THE EMERGENCY? I DON'T REMEMBER.
UM, I DON'T KNOW WHAT, WHAT THE STANDARD IS THEY'RE USING.
I DON'T KNOW IF YOU'RE THAT I DON'T THINK WE HAVE ONE IN PLAIN WHEN IT'S TOO HOT.
WELL, THEY SAID THAT IT WOULD BE HOT OR COLD CLARIFYING.
THE UPPER POINT IS WHEN I'M, I'M GONNA ASK A QUESTION HERE.
WHAT RELEVANCE DOES THAT HAVE TO US DETERMINING WHETHER THE CITY MANAGER RUNNING OUR CITY HAS AN OPPORTUNITY TO SAY IT'S HOT ENOUGH THAT WE WANT TO OPEN THESE SHELTERS AND PROVIDE? SO ALL WE'RE TRYING TO DO HERE IS MAKE IT MORE EFFICIENT BECAUSE UNDER THE CURRENT DEAL, HE'S GOTTA GET COUNSEL TOGETHER TO GIVE HIM PERMISSION TO GO DO THAT.
THIS ALLOWS US TO JUST SAY, HEY, YOU HAVE THAT AUTHORITY.
WHY DON'T WE MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE? THERE'S A LOT OF QUESTIONS, MR. RATLIFF.
[03:30:02]
UM, I MEAN, I WAS GONNA ASK KIND OF THE SAME QUESTIONS.'CAUSE MY, MY CONCERN IS THAT IN THE WINTER WE GET 20 DAYS, 15 DAYS BELOW 35 SOMETHING, BUT WE HAD, THIS YEAR, WE HAD 90 DAYS OVER A HUNDRED DEGREES.
AND, AND THAT HAPPENS PRETTY MUCH EVERY SUMMER.
AND SO MY, MY CONCERN IS THAT IF, AND THOSE ARE LIFE THREATENING WEATHER CONDITIONS, BUT I, I HAVE A SIGNIFICANT PROBLEM WITH HAVING A 90 DAY SHELTER EVERY SUMMER IN POTENTIALLY EVERY CHURCH IN TOWN.
AND THAT, THAT DOES CONCERN ME.
UM, AND, AND THAT'S, AND THEN FOLLOWING UP ON ONE OF MR. BRODSKY'S QUESTIONS, UM, AT LEAST THE, THE CHURCHES I'M FAMILIAR WITH, NONE OF THEM HAVE ADEQUATE FACILITIES TO HOUSE PEOPLE FOR 30 DAYS OR 90 DAYS.
THEY DON'T HAVE KITCHENS AND SHOWERS AND ALL THOSE THINGS.
AND SO, UM, IT, IT, I KNOW, I I, I'M, I HEAR WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, CHAIRMAN, I REALLY DO.
BUT I HAVE CONCERNS ABOUT OPENING UP, UM, UH, WELL, THAT'S WHAT, WHAT'S OPERATING UNDER THE HANDLES THAT, BECAUSE IT, THE CITY MANAGER COULD HAVE BEEN DOING THAT, RIGHT.
SO IT MAKES THE ASSUMPTION THAT BY PASSING THIS SOMEHOW NOW HE'S GOING TO AUTOMATICALLY DO THAT.
AND I DON'T, I DON'T THINK THAT'S THE CASE.
WE'RE JUST TRYING TO GIVE THE CITY MORE FLEXIBILITY AND MORE EFFICIENCY IN THE WAY IT OPERATES.
LET, LET'S, LET'S DO THIS, MR. KERRY.
JUST, UH, COUPLE REAL QUICK QUESTIONS.
ONE IS, WHAT WILL QUALIFY AS A RELIGIOUS, UM, FACILITY? I MEAN, WHAT, WHAT'S THAT HURDLE? THERE'S A DEFINITION IN THE ZONING ORDINANCE NOW.
SO ANYTHING THAT MEETS THE CURRENT DEFINITION WITHIN THE ZONING ORDINANCE.
UM, YOU MENTIONED SOMETHING ABOUT KATRINA.
SO, UM, LET'S SAY THERE'S ANOTHER KATRINA, THEN OUR CITY MANAGER WOULD BE ABLE TO DECLARE THAT, UM, AN EMERGENCY.
IS THAT, I MEAN, WHAT COULD, WHAT COULD THEY DECLARE AS AN EMERGENCY? AND NOTWITHSTANDING THE, THE COMPETENCY OF OUR CITY MANAGER? BUT, BUT I THINK THE PURPOSE OF THIS GROUP UP HERE IS TO, IS TO ASK THE TOUGH QUESTIONS ON BEHALF OF, YOU KNOW, THE, THE CITY SOMETIMES, AND NOT JUST TO ASSUME EVERYTHING.
UM, YOU KNOW, I'M NOT SAYING CLAIMING, I'M NOT THE DIRECTOR OF EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT, SO THAT'S NOT MY AREA OF EXPERTISE.
THAT'S THE ONE EMERGENCY THAT I'VE EXPERIENCED SINCE I'VE BEEN HERE, UM, WHERE THE CITY ACTUALLY, UH, HELPED TO PROVIDE HOUSING FOR PEOPLE, UM, DURING THAT EMERGENCY.
SO, UH, THAT'S THE ONE EXAMPLE THAT I'M FAMILIAR WITH.
NO, AND, AND THAT, THAT'S A GOOD ONE.
I WAS RUNNING A COMPANY AND WE ACTUALLY HIRED A LOT OF PEOPLE FROM THE NINTH WARD THAT CAME OVER THAT NO LONGER HAD HOMES FROM KATRINA.
BUT, YOU KNOW, NOTWITHSTANDING THAT, I, I, I THINK, UH, COMMISSIONER RATLIFF, THERE'S A LOT OF WISDOM IN THE QUESTIONS HE'S ASKING.
AND I, I, I SHARE THOSE QUESTIONS.
MR. LAW, I WAS JUST TRYING TO UNDERSTAND, UH, LIKE MR. BRONSKI, YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT, YOU KNOW, LIKE THE, THE UPPER END, AND SO THE HEAT, BUT HEAT IN TEXAS, WE DON'T, I MEAN, I UNDERSTAND THOSE ARE DANGEROUS CONDITIONS, BUT I CAN'T, CAN ANYBODY THINK OF A TIME WHERE THE CITY MANAGER HAS DECLARED THAT AN EMERGENCY? RIGHT? IT WAS
SHE, THEY HAD MENTIONED THAT THERE WAS A HEAT LIMIT THERE.
THAT WAS SOMETHING THEY SAID, RIGHT? I, I THINK IT HAS TO DO WITH THE NIGHTTIME TEMPERATURES NOT FALLING BELOW A CERTAIN LEVEL.
I BELIEVE, I WANNA SAY, WHEN I WAS LOOKING AT DALLAS, WHEN I SAY IT WAS 85 DEGREES FAHRENHEIT, MAYBE 90, I CAN'T REMEMBER OFF IT.
DID ANY DID ANY, I MEAN, WE HAD A REALLY, REALLY HOT SUMMER.
I DON'T KNOW THAT ANY EMERGENCY DECLARATIONS WERE ISSUED.
AM I WRONG? I'M NOT AWARE OF ANY.
I MEAN, I, BECAUSE I SHARE MR. RAT'S POINT, IF WE'RE, IF WE'RE NOT EVERY, I MEAN, I THINK IT'S AN EXTREME THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT, BUT IF EVERY CHURCH IN PLANO BECOMES A SHELTER FOR 90 DAYS DURING THE SUMMER AND THEY DON'T HAVE ADEQUATE FACILITIES, CLEARLY THAT'S A PROBLEM.
BUT I DON'T, I DON'T SEE THAT'S WHERE THIS IS GOING.
I THINK THAT KATRINA OR A TORNADO COMES THROUGH.
I DON'T KNOW THAT ANYTHING WE DO TONIGHT MATTERS.
WE'RE GONNA STEP UP AND HELP PEOPLE, AND WE'RE NOT GONNA BE OUT THERE ENFORCING THE LAW ON 'EM.
I THINK THERE'S A BIG CONVERSATION ABOUT NOT MUCH MR. ALI.
I THINK I'VE SAID ALL THE QUESTION IN MY HEAD, UM, BECAUSE WHAT WE'RE, I THINK WE'RE RUNNING AROUND SEEMS TO ASSUME THAT THE CITY MANAGER HAS UNCHECKED POWER, AND THAT'S NOT THE CASE.
RIGHT? THIS JUST GIVES THE CITY MANAGER SPEED.
'CAUSE COUNCIL CAN ALWAYS, HE HAS A CHECK
[03:35:01]
CALL A SESSION AND, AND DO, RIGHT? SO IF THE CITY MANAGER DECLARES AN EMERGENCY AND DECIDES HE WANTS TO HOLD IT FOR 30 DAYS, COUNCIL CAN OVERRULE IN TWO SECONDS.YOU KNOW, THERE IS A CHECK ON THE CITY MANAGER YES.
THIS JUST GIVES HIM THE ABILITY TO MOVE QUICKLY OR HER THE ABILITY, TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THE RESOURCES THAT THE CITY HAS.
I TOTALLY AGREE WITH, UH, CHAIRMAN AND MS. UH, COMMISSIONER ALI.
HOWEVER, I'M NOT UNDERSTANDING THIS CHANGE OF THE DEFINITION OF THE TEMPORARY ACCESSORY HOUSING.
WHETHER IT WILL HELP WHAT, UH, THE CHAIRMAN AND THE MS COMMISSIONER ALI IS TRYING TO ACHIEVE, BECAUSE I THINK WE'RE TRYING TO MAKE IT IMMEDIATELY EFFECTIVE WHEN THE EMERGENCY IS DECLARED.
RIGHT? THAT MEANS THE FACILITY OR WHATEVER ORDINANCE THAT SHOULD ALREADY BEEN THERE.
BUT WHEN THIS IS DECLARED, NOW, WE'RE ONLY CHANGING THE TEMPORARY ACCESSORY HOUSING SHELTER DEFINITION FROM A STRICT NUMBER OF INDIVIDUALS IN TIME TO A REGULAR DEFINITION WITH AN EXCEPTION.
AND THE EXCEPTION IS THAT WHEN THE EMERGENCY DECLARED, THEN ALL THE RESTRICTIONS ARE EXEMPT.
BUT THAT DOESN'T CHANGE THE PROCEDURE OF GIVING THE TEMPORARY ACCESSORY HOUSING ORDINANCE TO DIFFERENT FACILITIES WHEN THEY DIDN'T HAVE IT.
I'M NOT SURE IF I MADE IT CLEAR.
I'M THINKING THAT OUR, THE PROBLEM I'M TRYING TO, WE'RE TRYING TO SOLVE, AT LEAST I, MY UNDERSTANDING IS TRYING TO MAKE THIS TEMPORARY HOUSING SHELTER AVAILABLE TO ALL THE FACILITIES WHEN THE EMERGENCY IS DECLARED.
BUT I THINK WE'RE, WE ARE, WHAT WE'RE DOING IS NOW MAKING IT AVAILABLE.
WE'RE MAKING ONE SPECIFIC, ALREADY EXISTING TEMPORARY ACCESSORY HOUSING SHELTER.
SO IT'S POTENTIALLY DOING A NUMBER OF THINGS AT THE SAME TIME.
IT'S SOLVING THE CURRENT PROBLEM FOR SALVATION ARMY.
IT'S, UH, HELPING TO EPIC TO GET, UH, ITS PERMITS, UM, WHICH IT CURRENTLY DOESN'T HAVE ZONING FOR.
AND THEN IT'S ALLOWING POTENTIAL FOR OTHER FACILITIES IN THE FUTURE SHOULD THERE BE A NEED.
SO MAYBE I DIDN'T MAKE IT CLEAR.
SO RIGHT NOW, DOES EVERY, UH, RELIGIOUS FACILITY HAVE THIS TEMPORARY ACCESSORY SHELTER, UH, HOUSING, SHELTER PERMIT OR ORDINANCE ALREADY? UH, TO MY KNOWLEDGE, UM, I THINK THERE IS, THERE ARE MULTIPLE, UH, FACILITIES OPERATING.
THE ONLY ONE THAT WE'VE REALLY BEEN TALKING ABOUT IS THE WARMING SHELTER, BUT THERE ARE OTHERS OPERATING, UM, THERE ARE OTHERS OPERATING WITH A DIFFERENT NONPROFIT.
SO FOR EXAMPLE, IF TOMORROW TEMPER DROPS TO ZERO DEGREES AND THE CITY MANAGER DECLARES, UM, EMERGENCY, HOW MANY RELIGIOUS BASED ON CURRENT REGULATION OR ORDINANCE, HOW MANY FACILITIES IN THE, UM, CITY CAN BE USED, UH, AS A TEMPORARY HOUSING SHELTER? DO THEY HAVE TO GET A, A PERMIT TO GET THIS TEMPORARY SHELTER, UH, PERMIT BASED ON THE CURRENT DEFINITION, WHAT THE, THE CURRENT, UM, SALVATION ARMY IS CURRENTLY USING A DIFFERENT DEFINITION UNDER THE ZONING ORDINANCE.
THEY'RE USING THE HOUSEHOLD CARE INSTITUTION DEFINITION, NOT THIS TEMPORARY HOUSING ACCESSORY HOUSING SHELTER.
THEY'RE USING A DIFFERENT DEFINITION.
HOW ABOUT THE CHURCH NEXT DOOR? DO THEY HAVE THIS RIGHT NOW? DO, UH, CAN THEY JUST OPEN THE DOOR AND ALLOW PEOPLE TO DO, TO USE A TEMPORARY HOUSING SHELTER? IS IT ALREADY EMBEDDED IN THEIR RELIGIOUS FACILITY? UM, ORDINANCE, THAT'S, THAT'S THE THING.
THIS WILL NOT INCREASE THE NUMBER OF FACILITIES CHANGING.
THIS IN MY MIND, IS ONLY ALLOWING WHATEVER IS ALLOWED NOW BIGGER.
'CAUSE ANY, ANY EXISTING ACCESSORY, IT'S ALLOWED CURRENTLY AS AN ACCESSORY USE TO ANY RELIGIOUS FACILITY.
SO ANY CHURCH CAN HOUSE UP TO 14 INDIVIDUALS AT ONE TIME FOR A MAXIMUM OF 30 DAYS PER CALENDAR YEAR.
ANY CHURCH WITHOUT ADDING, ADDING A PERMIT OR
[03:40:01]
ANYTHING.WE WENT THROUGH THIS, UH, AGAIN, WHEN I WAS ON COUNCIL AND WE HAD A ROOM FULL OF PEOPLE TALKING ABOUT THIS.
AND, AND THE BOTTOM LINE BOILED DOWN TO, ARE WE AGAINST HELPING OTHER PEOPLE IN OUR COMMUNITY? BECAUSE WE'RE AFRAID, OH MY GOD, THIS WOULD'VE BEEN EIGHT YEARS AGO.
WE'RE GONNA SUDDENLY HAVE CHURCHES FULL OF HOMELESS PEOPLE.
BUT IF A TORNADO COMES THROUGH HERE OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, WE'RE NOT GONNA CARE IF SCHOOLS OPEN UP THEIR GYMNASIUMS AND LET PEOPLE IN.
THIS IS NOT ABOUT BRINGING IN A BUNCH OF PEOPLE RIGHT.
AND LETTING THEM LIVE IN CHURCHES WITHOUT PROPER CARE FOR THE NEXT SIX MONTHS.
UM, THIS IS ABOUT LETTING THE CITY OPERATE EFFICIENTLY WITHOUT HAVING TO, I THINK I'M, I'M REPEATING MYSELF.
I'M TRYING TO MAKE SURE THAT THE CHANGES WE'RE MAKING IS GOING TO ACHIEVE WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO DO.
THEY WOULDN'T HAVE WRITTEN IT.
I, I MEAN, THIS IS WHERE GUYS, ARE WE SMARTER ABOUT THIS AND HOW THE CITY OPERATES THAN THESE PEOPLE ARE.
I, I, THAT'S WHERE I, I GET, I HUNG UP WITH THIS.
I'M, I'M NOT SURE THE RELEVANCE OF THAT QUESTION, BUT, WELL, HERE'S THE THING.
MY ROLE WE HAVE, WE HAVE A ROLE IN THIS GUYS, BUT SERIOUSLY, ARE, ARE WE GONNA SAY, WELL, I DON'T KNOW.
BUT WE'RE GETTING A LOT OF QUESTIONS WHEN THE BOTTOM LINE IS THIS IS ABOUT CREATING EFFICIENCY FOR THE OPERATION OF THE CITY MANAGERS AND THEIR TEAM.
ANYTHING THAT THAT CITY MANAGER DOES, IF COUNCIL IS NOT APPROVAL OF IT, THEY CAN QUICKLY CALL A MEETING AND PUT AN END TO IT.
AND ALL OF THIS THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HERE ALSO HAS TO GO TO COUNCIL FOR APPROVAL.
SO THEY'RE GONNA PUT THE REINS ON THE CITY MANAGER IF THEY DON'T LIKE THIS.
BUT MY GUESS IS THEY'RE NOT GONNA HAVE A PROBLEM BECAUSE THEY'RE GONNA SEE WHAT IT IS.
IT'S JUST ALLOWING US TO USE OUR CITY OF EXCELLENCE RESOURCES TO MEET THE NEEDS OF THE CITIZENS AND THE COMMUNITY.
AND THAT THAT'S REALLY ALL THIS IS ABOUT.
SO, UH, THERE'S STILL MR. BRUNO, I MOVE THAT WE APPROVE ITEM NUMBER THREE.
WE HAVEN'T HAD OUR PUBLIC HEARING YET.
SO YOU WANTED TO MAKE A MOTION, MR. OLLIE, OR DO YOU HAVE A TECHNICAL QUESTION FOR STAFF? NO.
I WOULD LIKE TO, UH, OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING.
DO WE HAVE ANYBODY HERE THAT WANTS TO SPEAK ON THIS? NO, WE DO NOT.
THREE OR FOUR MS. DAY, YOU HAVE ANYTHING
SO WE HAVE A MOTION BY MR. BRUNO WITHIN A SECOND BY COMMISSIONER LYLE TO APPROVE ITEM FOUR, PLEASE VOTE.
AND THAT ITEM CARRIES FIVE TO THREE.
[5. (RP) Public Hearing - Replat & Revised Site Plan: Willow Bend Polo Estates Phase B, Block B, Lot 8R - One Patio Home lot on 0.2 acre located on the east side of Shaddock Boulevard, 30 feet south of Castle Gate Drive. Zoned Planned Development-423-Patio Home. Projects #R2023-036 and #RSP2023-063. Applicant: Sheryl Thostenson (Administrative consideration)]
PUBLIC HEARING, REPLANT AND REVISED SITE PLAN WILL ABANDON POLO ESTATES PHASE B, BLOCK B LOT EIGHT R ONE PATIO, HOME ON 0.2 ACRE, LOCATED ON THE EAST SIDE OF SHADDOCK BOULEVARD, 30 FEET SOUTH OF CASTLE GATE DRIVE, ZONED PLAN DEVELOPMENT 4 23 PATIO HOME.APPLICANT IS CHERYL THORSTENSON.
THIS IS FOR ADMINISTRATIVE CONSIDERATION.
MS. BRIDGES, UM, STAFF APPRO, UM, RECOMMENDS APPROVAL OF THE REPL AND THE REVISED SITE PLAN AS SUBMITTED.
I'M HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS YOU MIGHT HAVE.
YOU HAVE BEEN WITNESSING SERIES OF THESE LAWS AND THAT'S THE SAME THING AND THERE'S MORE COMING, RIGHT? CORRECT.
DO WE HAVE ANY TECHNICAL QUESTIONS FOR STAFF? NOPE.
MR. BROSKY WAS LIKE, THANK YOU.
DO WE HAVE ANY SPEAKERS ON THIS ITEM? NO, WE DO NOT.
I CHAIRMAN, I MOVE THAT WE, I MOVED
I APPROVE THE REFL AND REVISED SITE PLAN AS SUBMITTED.
ALRIGHT, WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND ON ITEM FIVE TO APPROVE.
THAT ITEM CARRIES EIGHT TO ZERO.
I HATE TO ASK, DO WE HAVE ANY ITEMS FOR
[7. (MB) Items for Future Agendas.]
FUTURE AGENDA? YES, WE DO.SHOULD I GO NOW? I DON'T KNOW IF YOU'RE JOKING OR NOT.
CONSISTENT WITH MY PUBLIC COMMENTS AT THE BEGINNING OF THE MEETING, I AM REQUESTING THAT WE REVIEW ZONING CASE 2021 DASH 0 21 AND ORDINANCE NUMBER 2021 DASH NINE DASH 26, UM, AGAINST OUR ENTIRE ZONING ORDINANCE.
[03:45:01]
BE INCLUDED.UM, IS, IS THE STAFF'S, UH, PLAN STILL TO BRING THIS AS PART OF A WORK PROGRAM? THE DIRECTION FROM, AS WE UNDERSTOOD IT FROM THE COMMISSION, WAS TO BRING BACK A DISCUSSION OF RESIDENTIAL ADJACENCY STANDARDS IN CONNECTION WITH THE WORK PLAN.
'CAUSE THERE'S A COMPREHENSIVE REWRITE OF THE ZONING ORDINANCE COMING FORWARD, COMING FORWARD.
AND TO HELP Y'ALL PRIORITIZE WHERE THAT NEEDS TO FIT IN THE GRANDER SCHEME OF THINGS TO HAVE THAT DISCUSSION WITH THE WORK PLAN THAT IS PLANNED FOR.
THAT DISCUSSION IS PLANNED FOR NOVEMBER 6TH PM THE MEETING.
AND THAT WILL COVER PART OF THE RESIDENTIAL ADJACENCY STANDARDS.
SO IT'S SCHEDULED FOR THE NOVEMBER 6TH MEETING.
AND WHAT I WOULD SAY IS IT FEELS TO ME LIKE MY REQUEST IS BEING TURNED INTO A CONVERSATION JUST ABOUT RESIDENTIAL ADJACENCY STANDARDS.
WHEN I'M SAYING SPECIFICALLY THAT THE ZONING CASE THAT WAS PASSED AND THE PD THAT WAS PASSED BY THE ORDINANCE WERE PASSED WITH ERROR AND BASED ON THREE WELL, WE CAN REVISIT.
THE CITY COUNCIL OR THE PLANNING AND ZONING.
THIS IS, I'M READING 3.8 REVOCATION OF AN APPROVAL.
THE CITY COUNCIL OR THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MAY REVOKE APPROVAL OF A CONCEPT PLAN, A PRELIMINARY SITE PLAN, OR A SITE PLAN IF IT DETERMINES THAT THE CONDITIONS OF THE APPROVAL HAVE NOT BEEN MET, OR IF THE PLAN CONTAINS OR IS BASED UPON INCORRECT INFORMATION.
MY, WHAT I'M TELLING YOU GUYS IS THAT THAT APPROVAL WAS BASED ON INCORRECT INFORMATION AND THE ZONING ORDINANCE GIVES US SPECIFIC ABILITY TO REVOKE THAT APPROVAL BASED ON 3.8.
ADDITIONALLY, IF YOU GO TO 12.170, UH, 0.2, ERROR AND AMBIGUITY ARE REASONS THAT YOU CAN REVIEW A PD.
SO THIS SOUNDS LIKE IT'S SEPARATE FROM THE WORK PLAN.
IT'S A SPECIFIC, IT'S A SPECIFIC REVIEW OF WHAT HAPPENED IN THAT ZONING CASE IN THAT PD.
SO, SO I'M GONNA ASK STAFF TO DO THIS, THEN I'M GONNA ASK LEGAL, LEGAL YEAH.
TO TAKE A LOOK AND THEN GIVE US AN EXECUTIVE SESSION ON THE SIXTH IF POSSIBLE.
SO YOU'RE JUST SECONDING, UM, MR. LYLE'S REQUEST? YES.
'CAUSE I WANT, I'M NOT SURE I'M UNDERSTANDING HE'S QUOTING SEVERAL DIFFERENT DEALS.
SO LET'S JUST HAVE THAT DISCUSSION ON YEAH, IT'S AN EXECUTIVE SESSION.
SO I DON'T WANT IT IN EXEC SESSION.
I I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE ASKING FOR.
BUT I THINK WE SHOULD BE EDUCATED ABOUT WHAT ALL THAT YOU JUST READ.
AND A LOT OF THAT'S LEGAL 'CAUSE IT'LL, THE PRECEDENCE AND EVERYTHING ELSE.
LET'S GET THE EDUCATION AND THEN WE CAN BRING IT OUT HERE TO THE, THE DIOCESE IF, IF WE NEED TO.
AND IN EXEC, ARE WE JUST GONNA HEAR FROM THEM OR WILL I HAVE A CHANCE TO PRESENT WHAT I THINK Y'ALL NEED TO HEAR AS WELL? WE'LL HAVE DIALOGUE JUST LIKE WE DID TODAY.
EXECUTIVE SESSION IS FOR LEGAL ADVICE.
I MEAN, YOU CAN ASK ME QUESTIONS, BUT IT'S NOT GOING TO BE A DIALOGUE.
SO THE DISCUSSION WON'T BE HERE.
IT'LL BE THERE AND I WON'T BE ABLE TO SPEAK.
THE EXACT SESSION IS ACTUALLY MORE FOR US TO UNDERSTAND WHAT IT IS YOU'RE TRYING TO ADDRESS.
AND HE'S ALREADY SECONDED AND HE SECONDED THAT POST THAT THE, WE PROBABLY WILL HAVE TO BRING UP ANOTHER MOTION, RIGHT.
TO BRING THAT DISCUSSION HERE.
BUT NOW WE'RE ALL EQUIPPED TO HAVE A FAIR DISCUSSION THAT ADDRESSES YOUR CONCERNS.
ARE WE GOOD? ADJOURNED AT 10 56.